Stop Waiting for the Friend You Want — Be Him - Episode 286

[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast [00:00:02] Speaker B: brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis. You would think at this point I would know. I would know the audio cues. [00:00:16] Speaker A: No, we don't know the cues. I don't even know what to do with my hands. [00:00:20] Speaker B: What do I do with my hands? Hey, Bill, how you doing today? [00:00:22] Speaker A: Good morning, Travis. How are you going to be? [00:00:25] Speaker B: This is going to be one of those podcasts. I feel like there is no such thing as rails we're starting. There's no rails, there's no direction. We're just gonna go wherever God calls. [00:00:33] Speaker A: We're glad you're joining us today in our non railed podcast. Welcome to Known Legacy Podcast. We want to help you wake up, gear up and come alive to who God called you to become. Travis, I'm super pumped to see your face today. [00:00:46] Speaker B: Well, thank you. It's good to be outside. It's beautiful today here in the DFW area. We finally are under 100 degrees, which is fantastic. So, so pathetic. [00:00:54] Speaker A: It's gonna be 85 and we're like, should I put a sweatshirt on? This is gonna be awesome. [00:00:58] Speaker B: I almost. I almost put on my light hoodie. [00:01:00] Speaker C: Exactly. [00:01:02] Speaker A: Is it gonna be too cold outside? [00:01:05] Speaker B: Anyways, thank you guys for checking us out. You can always find us on Instagram if you want to see the video, what we look like. And I promise you, I think this one, you're gonna want to watch the video. You can find it on YouTube. We also post a bunch of stuff to Instagram and Facebook, which is fantastic. You can find out [email protected] where Bill's speaking in the next few days and weeks. If you want to contact him to come out and talk to your men's ministry or talk to your men's group, that'd be great. You can do that through the website and questions, comments, concerns, prayer requests, whatever you got. Donut flavors, let us know infoonelegacy.org or [00:01:38] Speaker A: if you want to mail us some donuts. Apple cider donuts. No, no, not just apple cider donuts. [00:01:43] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:01:44] Speaker A: That's what we need from you overnight then. [00:01:46] Speaker B: Because I don't need three day old stale. No, you know what? If you're mailing them, you can snail mail it through Alaska. I don't care. [00:01:52] Speaker A: We would probably eat stale. [00:01:53] Speaker B: Nobody at this table is going to [00:01:55] Speaker C: turn down donuts, even if they're not apple cider. [00:01:58] Speaker B: That's Kyle, our producer in the corner [00:02:00] Speaker A: Kyle speaking truth and love. I think that was actually a biblical reality right there. That's doctrine. Doctrine. [00:02:09] Speaker B: Anyways, so without further ado, let's get into the question of the day. [00:02:12] Speaker A: Well, wait a minute. I want to tell you more about all the stuff going on. You're so excited today. Listen, guys, we have some great stuff for you. We have if you are in a journey with the Lord, do you want to know where you are in your steps of faith, man? We have a wake up guide and seven day reset just for you. You can click the link below as well as. Another way to connect with us is our Thursday morning men's adrenaline dropped. You called it a drop earlier. It's pretty adrenaline. Adrenaline shot. It's on the phone here, guys. If you want to be a part of that, we'll put the link below. It's a great way to connect. On Thursday morning, guys all over the country get involved in this. We'd love you to be a part of that. So we'll leave that link just for you to get on. As well as joining our Facebook men's group Brotherhood, if you're still on Facebook. I heard my space has come back. I can't wait for that. So we're going to get on there eventually. Will be on there. But guys, connect with us. If you want to know more about our free study for churches and you can pick up a book, our book more than [email protected] we'd love to have you be a part of that as well. And so we are excited of all the things that God is doing. We are excited that you're here with us today. And I'm excited about the question of the day. Question of the day. [00:03:21] Speaker B: All right. So, you know, we have this beautiful document in America, you know, and it talks about how all men are created equal. And I agree with that wholeheartedly. However, I think we differentiate ourselves quickly when it comes to this subject and this subject alone. You have peasants, and then you have the bourgeoisie, the elegant people. And it's simply this question. You're at home, it's late night, you're watching football. You decide you want some nachos. Now you put cheese on the nacho chips. There's two ways to melt that cheese. Oh, yeah, I'm going trailer trash on this one. Do you A, use the microwave or B, use the broiler in the oven? How do you make your. How do you make your nachos? [00:04:00] Speaker A: You go for. Okay, okay. So because I have another part of this. [00:04:04] Speaker B: Is there more to this? We're going super trailer trash. [00:04:09] Speaker A: I like to grate my own cheese. [00:04:11] Speaker B: Oh, you're so bougie. [00:04:12] Speaker A: I can't stand that orange cheese. Cheese isn't orange. It starts with white milk. Who puts orange and cheese? So I like to grade my Vermont extra sharp cheddar. Oh, from Cabot Creamery. [00:04:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:04:26] Speaker A: Or. Or it's called helluva good H E L U V A. [00:04:30] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:04:31] Speaker A: Good cheese. [00:04:31] Speaker B: As all the Baptists can keep listening. [00:04:33] Speaker A: Exactly. Calm down, everybody. Calm down. I like to grade it on my. And then I like to put it. I'm gonna. I'm gonna say white trash put in the microwave. [00:04:40] Speaker B: Oh, you ruined it then. Okay, I'm. No judgment here. We have work to do. We have work to do. Kyle, how about you? [00:04:48] Speaker A: It's not done with me yet. [00:04:49] Speaker B: No, he's not. [00:04:51] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm gonna. I'm gonna really, really need some intervention. Yeah, I. I prefer the Mikasina method, [00:05:00] Speaker A: which is what for those. [00:05:01] Speaker B: Mikasina. What is that for our listeners? [00:05:03] Speaker C: I order it from Mikasina and go [00:05:06] Speaker B: get it, and that's the way I do it. Making it at home is just too complicated. I'm gonna let the experts at Mikasina do it. [00:05:17] Speaker A: That's fantastic. He is so bougie. Someone else grates the. No, no, no, no. We don't touch cheese here. [00:05:25] Speaker B: All right, Bill, I do have to ask a question. Do you ever just grate it straight into the mouth? [00:05:30] Speaker A: I'm gonna defer to that question. [00:05:33] Speaker B: I'll ask Sarah. Next time I see her, be her walk downstairs. And Bill's just in the middle of the kitchen with a grater above his mouth, just with cheese. [00:05:40] Speaker A: No, no. I hear her coming down. She's like, what's. [00:05:46] Speaker B: Well, just in case you're wondering the correct way. So this is how trailer trash I am. So you get the can of chicken, and I said, can of chicken. Oh, yeah, you get the can of chicken, and you get all that moisture. [00:05:56] Speaker A: Chicken of the sea. [00:05:57] Speaker B: No, it's called tuna of the sea. Tuna of the sea. So you get the can of chicken, right? And you open that bad boy, and you smell that juice, and it smells horrible, but it's amazing. You get rid of all that juice. You get your chips out there, and it's got to be one layer at a time. You can't do multiple layers and have those chips at the bottom be all, like, neglected. You got to make sure every chip gets some love. You take that can of chicken, you break up that Chicken, Throw it on top, and then you get your hand. Shredded cheese or Velveeta or whatever you want. And the only way to do it is in the oven, man. They're all. When those chips get crispy on the outside. [00:06:32] Speaker A: Oh, so you ruin it before, I ruin it after. [00:06:37] Speaker B: What are you talking about, ruin it, man? And if I really. If you really want to go next level, get some pickled jalapenos, throw those on top. Oh, you're talking fat kid happy right there. 100. [00:06:47] Speaker A: Super happy. Super. Man, this has been a good day so far. I hope you're still listening to us, because we have a guest. Rory Lawrence of the Dangerous man podcast is on today. Rory, we're so glad to have you on. [00:07:04] Speaker C: You all can't start like that. [00:07:06] Speaker B: Cheers. [00:07:06] Speaker A: Cheers, brother. So. So let's ask. [00:07:09] Speaker C: Gentlemen, how you doing? [00:07:10] Speaker A: We're so glad to have you on, man. So question of the day for you. [00:07:14] Speaker B: Are you heart medication? Are you? [00:07:16] Speaker A: I guess the question is, are you white trash or not? [00:07:18] Speaker C: I guess. Oh, my goodness, man, you have me at super fappy. I don't understand what you did to nachos, but, dang, I thought I just cooked them. I didn't realize there was so much to it, man. I like Kyle's method. That's a great method, Kyle. Love it, love it, love it, love it. I'm. I'm more of an architect when it comes to my nachos, man. [00:07:41] Speaker B: Yes. [00:07:41] Speaker C: I get. I get really heavy into the ingredients, get really heavy into the stacking and the piling because you got to do my. I love that you mentioned we don't leave redheaded stepchildren nacho chips at the bottom of the pile and leave them alone. That's wrong, it's neglectful, and you should be ashamed yourself. Those deserve the same amount of cheese, salsa, beans, and goodness that every other layer gets. Yo, we gonna have some fun today. [00:08:09] Speaker A: Oh, I'm gonna. This is so good. [00:08:11] Speaker B: I know what we're doing today for lunch. [00:08:13] Speaker A: I. Yeah, never mind. [00:08:16] Speaker C: It looks like everybody on the feed right now has drank all the ADHD in the world, and we're getting at it. [00:08:22] Speaker A: Hallelujah. Hallelujah. Man, we are so excited to have you on, bro. Before the. For you guys listening, I didn't realize how connected me and Rory were before that. Me and Rory were before this. I can't even talk. [00:08:33] Speaker B: You got it. You got it. [00:08:35] Speaker A: Yeah. We are super excited. So, Rory, share a little bit about yourself. Share about your ministry. Share about what you do. Let our listeners know who you Are my friend. [00:08:43] Speaker C: Absolutely. 44 years old, married for the last 10, going on 11 years, I think. I think that's the number right now. We'll find out. Got three kids, two teenage boys and a daughter. And grew up in New Hampshire. Then I moved away. Ended up moving around the south quite a bit. Ended up in Texas. Shout out San Antonio there for a very long time. Did you just say you were in DFW area? [00:09:10] Speaker A: Absolutely, we're in the dfw. [00:09:12] Speaker C: Yo, brother. This is why we're going to have a great time, because we have the New England connection and we got Texas connection. It's great. [00:09:20] Speaker A: Like, he knows what a good Dunkin Donuts is, what an apple cider donut is, and barbecue. Well. [00:09:26] Speaker B: And San Antonio, dude, there is no better food, Mexican food in the state of Texas. Antonio. It is so good down there. [00:09:34] Speaker A: Actually, that's what worship tastes like. I didn't know. [00:09:37] Speaker B: Yes. [00:09:37] Speaker C: Yes, 100%. [00:09:40] Speaker A: It's in the book of second opinions. Look it up. Rory. [00:09:47] Speaker C: Yeah, moved down south. I was down there for, gosh, I don't know, probably like nine years or so. And then all my family's from back up here, so I ended up just moving back to New England. I got them all to ministry and a wild, crazy, chaotic ride. And now I've planted a church. About seven years ago, my wife and I planted what I'm talking about and grinding. And out here in the frozen tundra [00:10:12] Speaker A: of New England, chosen. Yep. [00:10:14] Speaker C: And yo. And launched. We launched a men podcast about five years ago. I figured about three people would listen to it. And it took off and became a global phenomenon now. And it's wild. We're in every country. I'm not trying to pat myself on the back because I did not expect this, only Jesus. But man, I just. I got so bored with ministry that was trying to act perfect. [00:10:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:10:38] Speaker C: So I said, you know what? That's enough. We're done this crap. It's time to do something that's real. [00:10:43] Speaker A: Yes. Yes, sir. [00:10:44] Speaker C: And so, yeah. [00:10:45] Speaker B: And. And I'm guessing that guys respond to that kind of reality and that realism. That's why we always talk about on this podcast, man. We're just. But dumb fishermen. We. We're just guys like Peter that had a hard working job and one day Jesus woke us up and we're like, all right, wherever you lead, let's go. [00:11:00] Speaker A: Yes. [00:11:01] Speaker C: And I. Man, I love to fish too, bro. So. Bass fisherman through and through. So I am a literal dumb fisherman. [00:11:08] Speaker A: I. Rory, share with us how you came to know Jesus. Like, you're growing up and all that kind of stuff. [00:11:13] Speaker C: Oh, dude. Went to church when I was younger. First church I walked into with a Catholic church, and that didn't work out very well, as you can imagine, given my loud personality. I had a lot to say, and nobody wanted to listen. [00:11:29] Speaker B: And so those priests were like, we got to get this guy out of here. [00:11:35] Speaker C: Well, the funny, funniest thing ever. Dude, I'm in there. I went with a girlfriend at the time. That was really the only reason I went. I'm just absolutely honest. And so we're in there, and I had a hat on the entire time. And before I even get to get out the door, the priest is shaking everybody's hand, and he puts his hand out to me, and he goes, you better take that hat off next time. And I said, you better not extend that arm. I'm gonna rip it off. Like, dude, that's the first thing you're gonna say to me? [00:12:03] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:03] Speaker C: Is you don't even know my name. Take your hat off. So I'm like. And I don't know. I had no. I didn't understand. Like, that was their thing. You don't wear your hat and this and that. So it's just wild. And I was like, wow, okay. And it kind of stuck with me for a little while. [00:12:16] Speaker B: Absolutely. [00:12:17] Speaker C: And then my second interaction with church was a church of Christ, and so I was. I went from one extreme to the other. [00:12:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:12:27] Speaker C: Know how to pick them. [00:12:30] Speaker A: So. [00:12:31] Speaker B: Yeah. That. [00:12:31] Speaker C: And I met some really cool people there. And I think it was the people that. China changed everything for me. [00:12:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:12:38] Speaker C: And had a. [00:12:40] Speaker A: A. [00:12:40] Speaker C: A mentor of mine that I was talking with at the time. Crazy dude. You. If you know him, I'm done. If you know him, I'm done. There's a guy by the name of Mark Roland. Incredible, man. [00:12:53] Speaker A: No, I don't. [00:12:53] Speaker C: Incredible story. Good. I'm glad you don't. Finally, I got one. But incredible, credible man. And, dude, he just one of those guys that, like, he just won't quit. He didn't give up. He didn't. [00:13:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:13:09] Speaker C: You know, when we're kids, we're always trying to push people away, and we're always trying to, you know, I don't want to listen to what you got to say. And this guy just wouldn't stop, man. Just always in my business, always calling me, and I'm like. And this was back in the day when the phone was hanging on the wall in your house. So you really had to be strategic about calling people. [00:13:27] Speaker B: 1900s. [00:13:29] Speaker C: Yeah, exactly. And so, man, he just didn't let up. And he's. He just kept wanting to tell me about this Jesus guy. And I'm like, yo, listen, like, it sounds really boring. I'm all sad, and I just here for the dating the girls. It was bad, man. I'm sorry. It just. It was. I'm honest, dude. So you're gonna have to edit a lot of things out. [00:13:50] Speaker B: Not at all. [00:13:51] Speaker A: You're so good. You're good, man. [00:13:53] Speaker C: But, yeah, and he just kept coming at me until finally, like, we. After a bunch of conversations, I was like, all right, like, let's hear about it. And this guy just laid it out in one of the most simple, direct, really easy to understand ways. And it was cool because his life matched what he was talking about. And that was the thing that was the game changer for me because I met a lot of godly men. Like, quote, unquote, godly. I met a lot of godly men that want to preach in your face and preach in your ear. And then I watched them fall. I watched them do things that were extremely ungodly. [00:14:29] Speaker B: And I've. [00:14:30] Speaker C: I've. I've found myself in those positions many times in my life. And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna believe it when it matches up. And this man's life, everything he did matched up to the point where when he was. I think I was about 18, 19 years old, it gets a little tragic. So Mark had, you know, really pressed on me, kept talking to me, he studied with me. And one time at about. It was like, literally like 1am And I'm like, I was coming off an inebriation nap. It's a nice way to call it that. I think I was about 15 or 16 years old, absolutely trashed, and woke up really early in the morning, still kind of hung over. And I just had this moment where I was like, oh, my gosh. Like, I'm filthy, I'm dirty, I'm a sinner. I'm no good. I'm using up everybody and everything around me. And it just. Dude, it was like I could see the weight of all of my decisions, and. Which wasn't that many because I was only like, 15, 16 years old, so. [00:15:32] Speaker B: Right, right. [00:15:33] Speaker C: But it was. It just was like a brick that hit me. And so I call, and it's like 1am And Mark answers, and he goes, what's up? Something's wrong. And I'm like, I. I need to get baptized. Like, I got to be washed. Like, I got to be clean, like, everything. And I'm seeing it in this haze, and I'm like, everything. Everything I've ever done. And he goes, all right, tomorrow, let's make it happen. And I'm like, wait, what? Hold on a second, man. Tomorrow? Yep. He's like, I'll pick you up. And I'm like, okay. And then it. Dude, Ever since that moment, absolutely crazy. He. We went. We went down to the church. He baptized me. I said it had to be him. [00:16:13] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:13] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:16:14] Speaker C: Of course it had to be him. And he did it in just wild, crazy ride. Grew up from that moment on an absolute mess. Didn't really learn anything. [00:16:24] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:16:25] Speaker C: But began a very slow transformation of my heart and started falling in love with this man they call Jesus. [00:16:36] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:37] Speaker C: And it's just wild, man. Absolutely, man. [00:16:39] Speaker A: You know, it. It makes me think about something we've talked about is, man, that when you. When you. When that happened to you, as this guy was. And I would call this true discipleship. [00:16:51] Speaker B: Yes. [00:16:52] Speaker A: It doesn't always match up. Did you find that. That didn't always match up with the definition of discipleship inside the church? [00:16:59] Speaker C: Oh, 100%. Yeah. So, I mean, this man took a relational disposition. [00:17:05] Speaker B: Yes. [00:17:06] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. So. So, you know, as. As I think about that, I'm going, man, he probably taught you truth. But. But did he sit down with you and go, okay, now step one, is this. Step two, is this. Or did he just do life with you? [00:17:19] Speaker C: No, he just did life, bro. So he would talk to me. He would have conversations about everything and anything, and then it was always coming back. It was always coming back to Christ. It was always coming back. And I'm just like, what the heck, man? Like this. This. How is this all interwoven in your whole life? Like, it's the. It's the very fabric of what your life is held together by. [00:17:39] Speaker A: Yes. What are you seeing in men currently in the society around you, especially guys who go to church that differs from that? [00:17:48] Speaker C: Oh, here we go. [00:17:52] Speaker B: We teed it up for you. [00:17:54] Speaker C: Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that. Thank you, sir. May I have another. What am I seeing it, guys? So we have a. We have a unique problem in our church. We have more men in our church than we do have women. The ladies show up more frequently, but we have more men that are. That call our church home. And so what am I seeing, like, as far as, like, discipleship? Drill down on that question for a little bit if you can. [00:18:21] Speaker A: So what are you seeing, like, relationally about them? What. What Are the roadblocks that are stopping those guys from having the same relationship you had with Mark? [00:18:30] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:34] Speaker C: Isolation. Complete isolation by choice, most of the time. Not by default. It's isolation by choice, by activity, by decision. There. Just like I was at a point in my life, we men, we are really good at isolating. We're really good at accepting and manifest. Manifesting. I hate that word, manifesting. The lone wolf mentality. Right, right. I'm just gonna do it all myself. And I. I think a lot of that echoes from our father's generation because they had to do a lot of it themselves. And so it's kind of just trickled down. But isolation, I think, is probably one of the absolute biggest things that is. That is absolutely destroying men and their ability to just have friends. [00:19:21] Speaker B: Yes. [00:19:21] Speaker C: Like actual brotherhood. [00:19:23] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it's not. [00:19:25] Speaker C: The church isn't teaching it. And the funny thing is they're in the absolute best position possible. They have the best examples possible. And they're like, hey, come eat some bacon. Yeah, what the hell, bro? [00:19:42] Speaker B: It's so true. Okay, so there's something that's been so. I think the church has three callings, and it's kind of the heart, the soul, and the mind. And we are called to grow the heart. Those are relationships. We're called to grow the mind in understanding and knowing the story of God, but more importantly, the character. Right. The soul stuff. And what we suck at is the character. And the reason why is because you can't make a program out of it. It's messy. It's one on one. You can't scale it. I can teach Bible study. Right. I can teach a bible study of 4 or 400 and it's scalable. But to actually get in the weeds with someone, to journey with them, it's hard. And unfortunately, most pastors, I'm going to lay it on me and my flock, we keep ourselves entirely too busy with unimportant things and we miss the very important things. And it's the text message, it's the phone call, it's the, dude, I can't tell you the number of churches that I talk to. And they don't have a budget for their pastors to take people out to lunch. I'm like, why did you have three, four days a week that you can take someone out to lunch and get to know them and get to know their stories and have them see you interact with the waiter or waitress, have them see you with your food that comes out wrong and you're not doing that you're just having lunch in your office studying. Studying the word of God is awesome. But, dude, you're missing the opportunity to actually get to know guys. And that's what I hear you talking about. And I'm like, dude, we need more of that. But it's messing. [00:21:03] Speaker C: I spend most of my time. And people love to complain about it, too. How come you're not doing this? Well, listen, priorities, dude. Priorities, Darla, Priorities. [00:21:14] Speaker B: I had a senior pastor, God bless him, love this man. He was, he was phenomenal in a lot of stuff. But this one he missed. And he had people go to church on Sunday morning. Not Sunday morning. Yeah, that's actually when you should be. [00:21:25] Speaker A: No, Saturday. [00:21:26] Speaker B: Because here's his quote. The staff had to be there on Saturdays because the mail person showed up. And we wanted someone at the office to receive the mail on Saturday, though nothing would be done with the mail until Sunday or until Monday. Right. But it was like, because we have to be in the office. And there's something about if you have a building, you got to be there to prove that it's worthy and that you're. And it's like, no, no, no. Like, be in the community. Like, hang out in the same restaurants. Get to know the bartenders. Like, their stories are messed up. They are. Some of the. They are so in need of something more than what they're doing. And, dude, yeah. I love what you're talking about. [00:22:01] Speaker A: So it makes you use it. Isolation. Speak into it. Because I know you did the Dangerous man podcast. You are a pastor. Give some, Give us some tangible steps. For a guy that's like, okay, I know that I'm isolated. I know that I don't have a lot of community. What are some things that you would say to the dude who's sitting across and going, bro, how do I fix this? How do I change this? [00:22:22] Speaker B: Oh, it's a good question. [00:22:24] Speaker C: Can I cuss. I'll try. [00:22:28] Speaker B: Do you, man, you, do you [00:22:32] Speaker C: get off your duff. Get off your duff and go do something with someone? [00:22:38] Speaker B: Yes. [00:22:38] Speaker C: I, I, I read a book years ago called Never Eat Alone. It was a book about. It's like a business book, but the concept is literally in the title, Never Eat Alone. And so one of the things I've done in my life is whenever I have projects that aren't, like, long term, hyper intensive projects that are going to take a long period of time, like, something easy. Hey, I got a, I got a toilet that just broke. You know, I got this thing or that thing. I'll bring Somebody alongside me that either knows what they're doing more than I do, or somebody that doesn't know what they're doing and we can fumble through it, make a mess, flood my house and fix it together. [00:23:14] Speaker A: It's so cool, I admit. You saying that me and Travis have been, have been coining the phrase reach inners? [00:23:19] Speaker B: Yes. [00:23:20] Speaker A: You know, a lot of churches do a really good job. [00:23:22] Speaker C: Reach your innards. [00:23:23] Speaker A: Okay. Reach inners. Not don't like reaching, but like, like, like a lot of churches, they, they have a table full of all the things that they offer, right? [00:23:31] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:32] Speaker A: But there's not anybody grabbing the guy and going, come here, I'm gonna take you to this with me. [00:23:36] Speaker C: 100%. [00:23:37] Speaker A: We've got. But. So it's usually when the crisis happens that they open up and they're like, hey, my wife just found out I'm addicted to this, or we're about to get a divorce or whatever, and then the need comes in. Whereas why can't we see that beforehand and be proactive to go, let's reach in and go, hey, come with me. What do you think is the roadblock for most guys that are isolated? I mean, do you think it's, do you think it's self inflicted or do you think that it's just this societal thing that makes them believe that they, that they don't have anything to offer? [00:24:02] Speaker C: There's definitely tremendous amounts of external pressures, 100%. So being 44 years old, growing up in New England and then going down south and then coming back, New England's a hyper work, hyper productive area way back. It just, and I'm not trying to like brag on us, we're actually kind of stupid with it because we overwork, [00:24:24] Speaker B: we don't rest a lot. [00:24:26] Speaker C: You know, we're constantly having to go, go, go, go, go, go, go. And so there's some societal pressure. There's cultural pressures of isolation. Like, hey, you know, figure it out yourself. You know, nobody really cares. You know, work harder, no one gives a crap. And there's some truth to that. But at the end of the day, like I said before, like, I just had to make a decision, okay? Because get getting out there and be like, hey, let me, let me talk to you about Jesus. They're going to be like, hey, shut your mouth. I don't want to hear about it, right? But if you're like, hey, listen, I'm building this thing in my backyard. It's a fire pit. Guys know about that stuff. They know how to do, you know, patios and this and that. And then. And I kind of. I stole this from Mark because Mark used to do this with me all the time. He'd be like, hey, come over. We're barbecuing. Or, hey, come over. I'm fixing something. I'm like, bro, I don't know how to fix that. And then he'd show me, hey, this is what we're doing. And we do stuff. And then in the. Doing is when the conversations happened. Doing is when. Yes, we were able to. It kind of disarms us as men. Yeah, it disarms us because we're like, oh, build something, fix something, touch some grass, whatever, you know? [00:25:30] Speaker B: There's nothing more awkward than two guys sitting in a coffee shop trying to talk about their feelings. Like your feelings. [00:25:36] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:25:37] Speaker C: But nobody wants to do that. [00:25:39] Speaker B: No, but you get the same two guys out there building the fence. You're gonna hit a hammer, you're gonna hit a thumb, and you're gonna have some conversations you otherwise would not have. I think that's why I love cigars so much, because it gives you something to do while you're actually connecting with the guy across from you. [00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah, there's. Yeah. I mean, that's why they make bars with mirrors, because you don't want to sit across the table from a guy. So they'll look at their face in the mirror. [00:25:59] Speaker B: Stop it. [00:26:00] Speaker A: That's. I mean, that's why they put the mirrors there. Well, I don't know if that's why they put them, but that is a huge. There was, I think, a study done that showed the value of, guys come there, they don't want to spend $8 on one beer. They want to have a conversation. So whether it's the bartender or the guy next to him. But they'll look at him in the mirror, but they won't turn and go, so tell me about your feelings. But they will stand right there. They will look in the mirror, and they'll look at the guy. [00:26:26] Speaker B: Okay. So it's interesting is there's another study that was done, and they looked at the postures of guys when they connect. And their feet are at 20 degree angles away from each other. Right. So they're like this. When women talk, they face each other directly. When men, it's at that. And they say the same thing. Like, it's this inherent thing in guys. We're like, I'll connect, but I'm ready to fight the dragon behind you if I need to. [00:26:50] Speaker A: And I love that you said it's doing something Men are tangible. They want activity. [00:26:55] Speaker B: That's why Jesus took three years. He didn't come and do a seminar. He did three years with these guys because he knew if I was going to disciple them, I have to be doing life with them. They got to see me doing life. [00:27:04] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:27:05] Speaker B: And then they can go and he says, hey, what you've seen me do, you'll do even more than that. They were like, oh, yeah, I've seen you do it for three years. And God provide. I got this. [00:27:13] Speaker A: There was that like, meme joke of Jesus, like with like, like a whiteboard. And all the disciples, all the apostles were sitting there. This is not discipleship. This is not what he meant. It was like, like on the way, along the journey and somewhere we've lost the. Along the journey. Oh, man, I love it. So share, share. [00:27:30] Speaker C: Because we're not, we're not taking the journey. [00:27:32] Speaker A: Exactly. [00:27:33] Speaker C: We're not doing journey. We're. Hey, come in here. Follow this process, Jump on these steps, get on the on ramp. [00:27:38] Speaker B: We're taking a test. [00:27:41] Speaker C: Shut up. Don't drink, don't smoke, don't cheat on your wife, don't cuss and open your wallet now. [00:27:46] Speaker A: Yeah, that's what we're doing. That's it. And, and instead it's, it's not just what not to do, it's what to become. [00:27:52] Speaker C: Yes. [00:27:52] Speaker A: And so I think that's the biggest thing. So, so what have you seen as you're doing the Dangerous man podcast? As you are a pastor? What are some success points that you've seen happen with guys in your journey? [00:28:03] Speaker C: So getting, getting around areas that they can relate to, environments that they can relate to, doing stuff that they relate to. It's literally, it sounds, we're like, oh my gosh, we figured out the secret sauce. This is literally what Jesus did. [00:28:17] Speaker A: Yes. [00:28:18] Speaker C: You get in their life. Yeah, you just get in their life. And I'll tell you what, man, we have, we have found some of the most rugged, probably according to most churches, non reachable men. And, and they have the biggest hearts for Jesus now. [00:28:33] Speaker B: 100. [00:28:34] Speaker C: It makes no sense. It makes absolutely no sense because nobody would even take the time, no pastor would take the time to get in their life, to go to their barbecue, to, to show up and say, hey, I want to invite you to. We're gonna trebuchet in the backyard. I didn't build it. Don't report me. But maybe we did best. [00:28:56] Speaker B: Best building project ever. [00:28:58] Speaker C: Do some man stuff that they can relate to that it puts you in the ballpark. Because I. I get this all the time. You don't look like a pastor, you don't act like a pastor. You don't talk like a pastor. And I'm like, well, okay, cool. Like, I don't know what that means. I get it now. [00:29:16] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:29:17] Speaker C: Because it's. If I have to look at. Talk like a pastor, and you're viewing me as a pastor. Pastor up, over then. Then I'm doing it wrong. I'm doing it wrong. I should be. So. I should be relatable. Paul said I become all things to all people. Right? [00:29:33] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. [00:29:34] Speaker C: It wasn't Paul saying I'm everything. It was Paul saying, I'm going to meet you where you're at. [00:29:41] Speaker A: Yes. [00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:29:42] Speaker C: And I do. I do this all the time with people I know and people I don't know. The guys in our church, the guys outside of our church, we do stuff together. It's not huge groups. Oftentimes it's a few guys. And then over time, the groups grow and this and that. But when you make connections and you build relationships, you have longevity. The problem, like you said earlier, is it's not a metric you can measure over short periods of time. [00:30:06] Speaker B: Correct. Dude, I love what you're saying, and I think it's. It's so simple, and it's so needed, and it's just matter of. For a lot of guys, it's reorienting their calendar and their schedule and letting people know, like, hey, I'm not gonna be in the office today because I'm gonna go hang out at, you know, the Stinky Pete bar. You know, are you gonna drink? I don't care if I'm gonna drink, but I'm gonna get to know the bartender and the guy next to me who's there, too. And he might be on his fifth drink, and it doesn't matter because Jesus loves him. And we're going to have a conversation that he would never get into a church and he would never seek out a pastor. But if I'm in that space, guess what the gospel's doing? It is investing. [00:30:45] Speaker A: He's probably not there because life is good. [00:30:47] Speaker C: Right? [00:30:48] Speaker A: You know, so I'm just gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna jump out on a limb and go, he's probably not drinking five drinks because life. [00:30:53] Speaker C: Nobody's on their fifth. Fifth whiskey because they're happy. [00:30:56] Speaker B: Exactly, dude. Amen to that. So. [00:30:59] Speaker A: So fast forward 10 years in the American church. What would success look like when it comes to engaging the heart of men? [00:31:05] Speaker B: Oh, man. [00:31:07] Speaker C: Wow. You Got good questions, bro. I mean, just. Just go back to what Jesus was doing with his disciples. He got around them, they ate, they sat around campfires all the time. I feel like if I could reveal any secret that's not a secret. It's so dumb. This is so stupid, but it works every time. Get. Get a guy around a campfire. Yes, Get a guy around a campfire. It's over. It's over. You're gonna laugh, you're gonna have a couple beers, you're gonna goof off, but at some point in that fire, you're gonna say something or he's gonna say something, and the conversation is going to go off the rails of commonality, and it's gonna go into depth. It happens. [00:31:48] Speaker B: Spirituality. [00:31:49] Speaker C: Freaking time. [00:31:50] Speaker B: Leaves commonality and enter spirituality. [00:31:52] Speaker A: That. And I think that's what I want to take from this. That's. I think the call to action today is success is authenticity. It's the moment when a guy goes, hey, man, can I. Can we talk about this really quick? [00:32:03] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:32:04] Speaker A: Can I share this with you? Like, and then they share this utmost wound that's like, hey, I'm broken. [00:32:09] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:09] Speaker A: And I think if we redefine success through that authenticity. [00:32:13] Speaker C: Come on. [00:32:13] Speaker A: Psalm 51. David said, you know, that. That he wants a contrite heart in front of God to say, man, this is it. I'm a mess. Like, I don't. I don't know what else to do, but I got to be honest with you in front of. In front of me. In front of you, Father. And then being honest with, like, with the mouth. Confession is made unto healing. That is these guys going, hey, man, I need someone to share this with. If you're out there and you've got nobody, you need to assess your journey. Is there someone around you that you want to be like, reach out to them? If there's no one like that, then you are the guy. [00:32:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:32:45] Speaker A: That someone needs you to reach out. [00:32:47] Speaker C: There you go. There you go. [00:32:48] Speaker A: I think that's the thing. So. [00:32:50] Speaker C: Because everybody's sorry, I'm a conversation. I'm a freaking bulldozer. [00:32:55] Speaker A: Go [00:32:57] Speaker C: excited like Chris Farley and just want to yell it out, oh, my brand new pet. [00:33:01] Speaker A: I got my brand new pet. [00:33:02] Speaker C: It's my pretty little pet. [00:33:05] Speaker A: I love this guy, man. So go for it. [00:33:07] Speaker C: I. I would say this right is we. We talk a lot about brotherhood in our circles and in our. On our podcast and in our church all the time, but the. The fire thing is probably the huge key to, like, you've got to be there, you got to be present. You got to have some relational chips on the table. There's no dude on the face of the fl. The planet that can be. Who will just divulge his heart to a complete stranger. [00:33:33] Speaker B: That's foolish. [00:33:33] Speaker C: Yeah, that's foolish. [00:33:35] Speaker A: Because in. [00:33:36] Speaker C: Yeah. In most circles, for a man to let that out, that's a vulnerability that will be and can be and is definitely 100 going to be used against him. [00:33:46] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:33:46] Speaker C: And he's learned that way probably from his mama or his wife or the females around him. Not trying to blame the ladies, but it happens, right? [00:33:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:33:54] Speaker C: So when they're. We're like, oh, how do you get men to be vulnerable? Just be there when it happens. [00:34:01] Speaker A: Yeah. Time and proximity, man. [00:34:03] Speaker C: There you go. [00:34:03] Speaker A: Time and proximity, man. I love this. This has been great. [00:34:06] Speaker B: If we could have the energy next time, that'd be really helpful. I feel like if anyone's still asleep, I apologize. [00:34:12] Speaker A: This will probably be our last podcast with you, Rory. I don't know if we can. This is super boring. This is super boring. [00:34:18] Speaker C: No, listen, let's do another episode and I'll take my pre workout and my creatine before we do the episode right into it, and we'll just. Dude, you see another monster. [00:34:26] Speaker B: And we'll eat our nachos beforehand and [00:34:28] Speaker A: we'll be fantast cider donuts. So, man, this has been great, Roy. So if you had to say, what's your call to action that you want to have guys today? What would you say to them? [00:34:38] Speaker C: So to get out of isolation and build brotherhood. [00:34:41] Speaker A: Yeah, okay, one. [00:34:44] Speaker C: Yeah, just. It's not hard. Just ask somebody to do something that you're already doing, or ask somebody if they're doing something, which they probably are, and say, hey, you want any help with that? And most guys listen. Most guys are going to say, oh, no, man, I got it. Don't take the first note. Don't take the fifth note. Don't take them. Just say, oh, man, whatever. Because here's. Here's the reality. Right? You can still. Even if you don't know how to do the thing, if you don't know how to be helped, you can still stand there and add commentary, trash talking and enjoy yourself. [00:35:16] Speaker B: Videotape it for later. [00:35:18] Speaker C: Yeah. So you can still be a spectator while you. While he's doing that. And I'll tell you what, it's the. Like you said earlier, it's the proximity. It's the presence. It changes things. And that thing, those two P's, that double P. Over time. That sounds really weird. [00:35:40] Speaker B: Hey, we're all over 40. We understand. Yeah. [00:35:43] Speaker A: When you got to pee, you gotta pee. Wait, are we talking about. Hang on a second. [00:35:51] Speaker B: Dear baby Jesus, forgive us. [00:35:52] Speaker A: Forgive us for this. I'm afraid you gotta get with some [00:35:54] Speaker C: men and pp, that's all you gotta do. Proximity, presence, all that stuff, man. [00:36:01] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:01] Speaker C: It gives them the opportunity to step out of isolation. I love what you said earlier when you talked about how like. Because most of this world I found. And I got a lot more to explore, but I found so far that most people are looking for the friend they want. Most men are looking for the brother they want. They're not looking to be the brother that they're looking for. Does that make sense? [00:36:23] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:24] Speaker C: 100 and I. I'll say it till I'm blue in the face. If there's no man around you that you want to be friends with, then you need to turn around and be the friend. [00:36:36] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:37] Speaker C: Be that type of person. Now, it's gonna cost you. [00:36:40] Speaker B: Yep. [00:36:40] Speaker C: It's gonna cost you. You're gonna get burned. But we're tougher than that. Come on. [00:36:46] Speaker A: Yes. [00:36:46] Speaker C: Stop. Like, stop simping out on this. Oh, I got burned. Yep, you got burned. Welcome to the club. We don't have jackets because they got burned. [00:36:57] Speaker A: I love it. [00:36:57] Speaker C: You gotta be the friend. Be the brother that you want to receive. [00:37:02] Speaker A: You know, we always talk. We. No, no, it's. This is great, man. I feel like I could just wind you up and let you go all day. I love this because, I mean, you're speaking our heart. We talk a lot about armor Sundays, you know, 1st Samuel 14 with. With. With Jonathan and his armor bearer. And just the value of having someone who's like, bro, I'm in your corner. And imagine if we had a society of men who were celebrating each other's wins. [00:37:26] Speaker B: Yes. [00:37:27] Speaker A: And high fiving them when they did the right thing. Like, even if it was simply, man, I took my wife out last night. Good job, man. Because you're like, you're. You're in the low statistic of men who have actually engaged the heart of their spouse. Or hey, amen. I stepped out in faith to do something. Like we. We're doing a study right now. And, and we have an independent study. And guys, we're going to put that in the. In. In the link below as well. We'd love you to fill it out. If you are a guy, I'd love you to fill out this study about the church. But right now we're finding that Over a hundred men that we've interviewed, only 35 would say that there's a guy in their corner. Not even two out of five. [00:37:59] Speaker B: That's crazy. [00:38:00] Speaker A: Would say they. They have nobody in their corner. Who's. Who's. Who's there challenging them to come alive. [00:38:05] Speaker B: Right. [00:38:05] Speaker A: Not just to do better. Right. And so we need to up those odds. [00:38:09] Speaker C: Like, we need to see it every day, man. [00:38:11] Speaker A: Every day. We need to work your podcast and my cat and our podcast out of a job. Yes. [00:38:16] Speaker B: Let's do. [00:38:16] Speaker A: Our men are like, we don't have time. We're too busy engaging the hearts of other men. And. And that sound weird. [00:38:21] Speaker C: I love it. [00:38:22] Speaker A: And so, man, I love this. Today we are gonna have you on again. [00:38:25] Speaker B: So good, man. [00:38:26] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm gonna take. [00:38:27] Speaker B: I'm exhausted. [00:38:28] Speaker A: I know. I'm so tired. It's awesome. I love it. [00:38:30] Speaker C: Go eat some nachos. [00:38:32] Speaker A: That's it right there. [00:38:33] Speaker B: My lunch plans. Let's go. [00:38:34] Speaker A: Oh, man. Well, dude. Hey, we're gonna. I would love if. Any final thoughts from you before we jump into the fast five? [00:38:42] Speaker C: Yeah. Don't be afraid at the cost of brotherhood, because the roi. The reward. I'll tell you what, man. Like, I know everybody wants that guy in his corner. It's going to cost you a lot to get that guy in your corner. But when you do, I'll tell you what. You find the one thing you've been looking for your entire life. Men speak the same language. We all speak the same language, so it makes communication very easy. If you'll do it. [00:39:08] Speaker A: I love it, bro. Where you. Where you been all my life, man? I had to move to Texas to find out I had a brother in New Hampshire that I didn't know about. This is crazy, dude. Hey, brother. So now we are moving into our fast five segment. [00:39:21] Speaker C: All right. [00:39:22] Speaker A: You ready for it? [00:39:24] Speaker C: We'll see. Maybe. [00:39:25] Speaker B: I mean, are we ready for. Are we ready? I think that's the better question. [00:39:27] Speaker A: Okay, number one, what's the current book that you're reading right now? [00:39:31] Speaker C: Just finished Driscoll's Act Like Men. And I just finished Designed to lead. [00:39:37] Speaker A: Nice. [00:39:37] Speaker B: It's good. [00:39:38] Speaker A: Nice, nice. Good books. Good books. All right, number two, what is something you're excited about in life? [00:39:45] Speaker C: Camping and raising boys. I got two teenagers and it is getting wild. Yes, it is getting wild. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:39:54] Speaker B: It's a different world. These guys are getting raised into a very different world. [00:39:57] Speaker C: Yeah, it's a hyper feminized society and they don't want it. They don't want it. They are desperate for men. Yeah, our sons are desperate. [00:40:09] Speaker A: I wish you. I wish that your boys had a dad who was excited about the Lord, though. [00:40:13] Speaker C: I really. Yeah, no, it'd be great. They just got this idiot that goes to the gym. [00:40:18] Speaker A: Someday we'll figure it out. Yeah, somebody will figure it out. So. [00:40:20] Speaker B: I love it. [00:40:21] Speaker A: Number three, if you could pick one decade to go back to, what would it be? [00:40:29] Speaker C: Early cowboy days. I don't know what decade that would [00:40:32] Speaker B: be, but like the 60s when the Dallas Cowboys were good. Is that what you're talking about? Dallas Cowboys. [00:40:37] Speaker C: Dallas Cowboys were only good when Aikman and Emmett were a part of it. Everything else has been trash. [00:40:42] Speaker A: We get that. [00:40:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, I know. We can't argue like on the western plane. [00:40:47] Speaker C: Yes. Like settling. No tech, Absolutely no technology. Me, I'd throw it all away. 100. [00:40:54] Speaker A: Love it, love it stuff, man. Number four, favorite fast food to eat. [00:41:00] Speaker C: I don't eat fast food. [00:41:02] Speaker A: If you had to eat one, what would you eat? [00:41:05] Speaker C: If I had to eat one? 100. Not McDonald's. [00:41:08] Speaker B: Yes. Good call. [00:41:09] Speaker A: Of course, if I had. [00:41:10] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm not. I'm not a huge fan of like ground up koala meat, so I'll pass on that. But I think if I disclaimer real quick. [00:41:18] Speaker B: We are not. We are not claiming that it's koala meat. It was a joke. McDonald's. [00:41:23] Speaker C: I'm gonn absolute blasphemy and say this and everyone's gonna hate me for it, but I'm. I would go back to my teenage years and I would absolutely destroy the Taco Bell value menu. [00:41:33] Speaker A: Oh, solid win. Solid dude. [00:41:36] Speaker B: Back in the day, there was nothing better would finish. Yes. [00:41:45] Speaker C: Oh, I didn't even know that was coming out. [00:41:48] Speaker A: That was great. [00:41:49] Speaker B: And here's the deal. Every single guy listening is like, I know exactly what you're talking about. They understand that completely. [00:41:55] Speaker A: They should hand out a roll through a roll of toilet paper with every meal, bro. Every meal. Awesome. Number five. If you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be? [00:42:09] Speaker C: Don't be friends with everybody. [00:42:12] Speaker A: Oh, okay. [00:42:14] Speaker C: Don't be friends with everybody. Be selective in who you choose to be close to you. Jesus was very selective about his 12 and even more so selective about his 3 and even more so selective about his self proclaimed BFF John. [00:42:33] Speaker B: Yes. I was his favorite John the beloved. [00:42:40] Speaker A: Love it, man. [00:42:41] Speaker B: You know, he wrote that in there because the other disciples would read it and be like, oh, oh, he. [00:42:45] Speaker C: That he flexed on them so hard that in. [00:42:48] Speaker B: And. And then The Peter, the slow one. [00:42:50] Speaker A: Exactly. Made it to the tomb first. Oh man. [00:42:53] Speaker C: Peter, yeah. Oh yeah. [00:42:56] Speaker A: Oh man. [00:42:56] Speaker B: This is so good, man. [00:42:58] Speaker A: Guys, do me a favor and check out the Dangerous man podcast. We're gonna put a link for that below as well. We wanna you have enough time to listen to both of these, to listen to us, to him. There's enough pieces of the pie, guys. Go and find someone to connect with. Have the guts to do that. [00:43:16] Speaker B: Yes. [00:43:17] Speaker A: Invite them in or be in or invite yourself into someone else's life. Because that really is what true discipleship looks like. Is us being more like Jesus together, sharing our wounds and sharing our brokenness. And it's not just holding hands, staring at each other across the table. This truly is meant man. [00:43:34] Speaker B: We love it. [00:43:35] Speaker A: This has been awesome. This has been awesome. Guys, do us a favor. Check out the Wake Up Guide and seven day Reset below. Click that link. Check out our brotherhood page on Facebook. Check out the Dangerous man podcast and morethanyoubook.com if you are interested in starting a men's study at your church, we have a free 10 session guide for you that goes with that book. And we just want to see you come alive to who God created you to be. Travis, final thoughts. [00:44:00] Speaker B: Jesus modeled it, Paul lived it and we are invited to replicate it. Awesome. To disciple someone. [00:44:07] Speaker A: Rory, stay on the line really quick. But guys, you have yourself a great rest of the week. We believe in you. We are praying for you. If you need anything info at Known Legacy, have a great week. [00:44:18] Speaker B: God bless you guys. Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy podcast. [00:44:22] Speaker A: We'd love to hear from you. [00:44:24] Speaker B: So email us your questions or comments to infonolegacy. [00:44:28] Speaker A: Org.