[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information, go to knownlegacy.org here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Morning, Bill. Good morning, Travis.
[00:00:15] Speaker C: Good morning, everybody.
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Welcome to the Known Legacy podcast where we want you to wake up, gear up, come alive.
[00:00:19] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:00:20] Speaker B: To who God called you to become. It is a nice day now it's September when we're as we're recording this.
It is the coldest day since the beginning of July, I think.
[00:00:31] Speaker C: Yep, absolutely. It's beautiful. It's fantastic. Cloud cover, slight breeze. It is delightful. And I feel like fall is just around the corner. In fact, I started putting up fall direct decorations at the house, hoping that somehow we would usher in cooler temperatures and maybe some rain. We desperately need the rain and we got some rain. So thank God we're loving it. Anyways, as always, thank you guys for checking us out. You can find us on YouTube, Instagram. You can find us on Facebook as well. There's a whole host of stuff going on with Known Legacy on Facebook. Bill, get into in just a second. If you have questions, comments, concerns or prayer requests, infoomelegacy.org is a great way to get ahold of us. And if you want more information about Bill and some of his speaking engagements coming up or you'd like to book him for a men's ministry event or retreat, knownlegacy.org is the place to land. And man, if you want to feel so moved to support the mission and ministry of what we're about here at Known Legacy, you can also make a tax deductible donation for those states.
[00:01:26] Speaker B: So great. I know.
[00:01:28] Speaker C: And there's no script, man. That's all script.
[00:01:29] Speaker B: That was amazing.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: It's all just from the heart. So Bill, why don't you tell us a little bit about some of the cool stuff that no Legacy has going on, man.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: We are constantly staying busy with a lot of stuff. Right now we have an in person study Tuesday nights. We'd love to connect. You can email
[email protected] if you want to know more about that. We have a call in study every Thursday morning. Our adrenaline shot at 6:45. We'll put the link.
[00:01:48] Speaker C: Adrenaline shot.
[00:01:49] Speaker B: There it is.
[00:01:50] Speaker C: Shot, shot, shot.
[00:01:52] Speaker B: We'll put the link below for you to sign up there. And if you want to check us out on Facebook, we have a Facebook men's group we'd love you to join and be a part of. We always share encouraging things in there.
You know, I just love how you're just so inventive, Travis.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: There's times that I'm like, man, I love this, you know, podcast because it's, you know, deep conversations with guys from across the world talking about stuff. But then there's times I feel like we're just nothing more than drive time entertainment from the radio.
[00:02:19] Speaker B: And I'm okay with that. Like, I'm okay with that. If you are in your car. If you're in your car, text us right now and let us know.
Not a chance. Not a chance. We are so grateful to have you guys on and join us today. And there's one more thing. If you want to learn more about us, we have the book more than you book.
[00:02:36] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: We would love to have you check it out. Yes. And study that. We offer free to churches. So more than you book.com.com for you to check out. And if you want more information about the info at Known Legacy, we'd love to connect with you.
[00:02:48] Speaker C: So this man, this one's going to be good.
[00:02:51] Speaker B: We're already like, we're like, ah, man.
[00:02:54] Speaker C: All right, so the question of the
[00:02:55] Speaker B: day, question of the day is simply
[00:02:59] Speaker C: this fall is here. And I don't know about you, but eating patterns and eating habits kind of change, right? And so I want to know from
[00:03:06] Speaker B: you guys, we call this fatim, not autumn.
[00:03:10] Speaker C: It's Fatim.
That's where you start storing up for the cold winter months of January and February.
[00:03:16] Speaker B: Storing up for a great weight loss story in January.
[00:03:18] Speaker C: So one of the great ways to store fat is to eat donuts. So my question is, what is your favorite donut and why is it apple cider?
I'll go first.
[00:03:27] Speaker B: Okay. Yes.
[00:03:28] Speaker C: Now, outside of apple cider, I love apple cider. Like authentic. Not like, don't go to Kroger and buy yourself some apple cider. Thinking these are gonna be good. And don't you know, they gotta be from an apple orchard someplace and they gotta be like, they're crispy on the outside, so good, amazing on the inside. Rolled in sugar because you need more of that in life.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: And quick note, if you want to send us some, like we say every year in for Unknown Legacy, we'll be more than happy to eat them on air.
[00:03:56] Speaker C: On air.
[00:03:56] Speaker B: But it has to be in the inter week because if not, then I'm gonna eat them all.
[00:03:59] Speaker C: I think it was like seven years ago someone sent us some of those donuts.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: We've gotten them a couple times and,
[00:04:04] Speaker C: and like you were showing Kyle and I the proper way to, to season your Donut.
[00:04:09] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: And I'm like, dude, that's entirely too much work. Just throw it in a bag, shake it up, and eat.
[00:04:14] Speaker B: It's so good.
[00:04:15] Speaker C: So, so good. Anyway, so. No, no, honestly, in. In all seriousness, I. I don't want to take these off the table. You can say these as well, but I am a sucker for a crunchy apple fritter.
[00:04:24] Speaker B: Oh, those are really good, too.
[00:04:25] Speaker C: Just like, you know, just. And I, like, lie to myself, and I'm like, there's apple in here. So it's. There's a healthy component somewhere in this donut. There's a healthy component. So I can eat two.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Yes and yes. Yeah. It's because it's got fruit in it.
[00:04:39] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: So good.
[00:04:41] Speaker C: Love the apple fritter.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: Kyle, what about you, man?
[00:04:45] Speaker C: For me, I have to go with the Boston cream pie dough.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: But I love apple fritter fritters, too. Ah, see? So that's Boston's.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Boston cream's really good. Baston. When I was in Boston, we'd have a lot of Boston.
[00:04:59] Speaker C: Okay, so talking about Boston Dunkin Donuts real quick. Yeah. It has to be the custard, not the white cream.
[00:05:05] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah.
[00:05:06] Speaker C: Absolutely.
Yeah.
[00:05:08] Speaker B: You even.
[00:05:09] Speaker C: We have standards here.
[00:05:09] Speaker B: Are you even American? I mean, come on.
[00:05:11] Speaker C: Forget about peasants.
[00:05:13] Speaker B: I know. What is this all about? What's this?
[00:05:15] Speaker C: No Dunkin Donuts. Okay, so, Duncan don'ts is all the rage.
[00:05:17] Speaker B: Whatever.
[00:05:18] Speaker C: Blah, blah, blah. I went to Nebraska and was there, and I decided I was gonna stop in and get a Dunkin Donuts. First off, totally disappointed. Not one of those donuts was made in that Dunkin door. Dunkin Donuts Shop, really? They were all, like, shipped in or whatever, and none of them were good. Like, I was so probably so full of chemical, part of me died because I just wanted, like, I don't have donuts often, so when I have a donut, I want a great donut.
[00:05:42] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:43] Speaker C: And it was so. Sorry, Duncan, if you want to sponsor us, I will change my answer.
[00:05:47] Speaker B: But currently, we can be bought by Donuts.
[00:05:51] Speaker C: We have a price, and it's donuts.
[00:05:53] Speaker B: Every week it's by a new orchard that sent us. Brought to you by Shots Brewery. Yes, exactly. But Shots Brewery is actually from.
From Laverne and Shirley. It's a brewery.
[00:06:06] Speaker C: Tell me you're old without telling me you're old. Yeah, Incorporated.
[00:06:11] Speaker B: Sorry, everybody. We were totally after us, I think, for me, for donuts. So you guys mentioned Boston cream. That's great.
I have two that are Totally sidelined that I would probably do. So when I lived in Boston and we went to college, we would go down to the Dunkin Donuts. I probably shared this story before, but, you know, I'm an old guy. Deal with it in there, everybody. But we would go to this Dunkin Donuts, and this sweet old lady who would close up every night would kind of give us, like, a ton of donuts for not much money.
And there was this apple filled cinnamon donut.
[00:06:40] Speaker C: I know which one you're talking about.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Yeah. And at first I was like, I don't want to eat this. And then I did. And I'm like, this is, like the most scrumptious, amazing donut in the world. And for some reason, nobody wanted them in Bastin. And so there was that one and then the other one. You, like, be like, my bastard.
[00:06:54] Speaker C: Well, I'm just excited that you use the word scrumptious. This is kind of taking this podcast
[00:06:59] Speaker B: to a whole new level. We're moving levels.
[00:07:00] Speaker C: Scrumptious.
[00:07:01] Speaker B: I know. I feel like I'm Willy Wonka right now.
[00:07:03] Speaker C: And so bonus points if you use that when eating a dinner that your wife cooked for you.
[00:07:08] Speaker B: That is scrumptious. And so.
[00:07:09] Speaker C: And the other one, she may hit you.
[00:07:11] Speaker B: This is, you know, this is like a slow. A slow burn, but. Slow burn on my life. But blueberry. Oh, the blueberry cake donut.
[00:07:20] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:21] Speaker B: It's so good.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:22] Speaker B: And it's like this hidden gem. You're like, oh, I'll have. It's usually the one that sits in the box. Nobody wants it. And I'm like, yeah, this is incredible. Isn't an incredible donut. So. So.
[00:07:30] Speaker C: Well, since you went to. I have to go for my. Yes, the Old Fashioned. The split top Old Fashioned with, like, glaze and cinnamon on top. Sour cream. Old Fashioned.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:07:39] Speaker C: It's got to be. We're not peasants again. Come on.
[00:07:43] Speaker B: Come on.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: We have standards.
[00:07:44] Speaker B: Hey, but put your favorite donut below in notes. We'd love to know only for, you know, research purposes, really. So that when we're gone, like, Charlie wants us to try the chocolate fritter apple bomb.
[00:07:57] Speaker C: And if you want to donate to our healthcare fund, you are more than welcome to make that donation to it.
[00:08:02] Speaker B: Yeah, we're in trouble. I am drinking black coffee, if that makes you feel better. So.
[00:08:04] Speaker C: Feels much better, man. But I. I'm so excited about the gift.
[00:08:07] Speaker B: I have a feeling that our guest is. He's a little more. He's a little more in shape than we are. We are in shape, but just round is a shape. And I'm in CrossFit. We're cross fat.
So, ladies and gentlemen, welcome Mark Ox, author of this Is the Way, with us today. We're so excited to have you on the podcast, Mark.
So for you, question of the day. Mark.
I almost feel like, yeah, I feel
[00:08:32] Speaker C: like he's gonna be like, well, normally I take an apple, I cut it in half, and I lightly toast it, and I put one gram of sugar on it.
[00:08:39] Speaker B: I've got a protein donut that I
[00:08:40] Speaker C: eat, you know, cottage cheese with extra donuts.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: Exactly. Mark, share with us your question of the day.
[00:08:47] Speaker A: Donut just. I'm not sure if I'm disappointed that you're not wrong with all the things you just said.
So I'm gonna double up here and say Boston cream was my favorite donuts.
[00:09:00] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:09:00] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:09:01] Speaker A: So, Bastin, as you guys were sharing, as a king of the store, I was reminded of a story as well about donuts. So this is. Oh, man. Back in high school days, I was working at a gas station. There was gas station, and there was a Tim Horton's Donuts inside the gas station. And at the end of the night, they would just take all the donuts and chuck them in garbage bags and huck them in the bins outside, right?
[00:09:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:09:23] Speaker A: So there was more than one occasion where I was like, hey, I'm going to a house party. Garbage bag full of donuts, and just drop in the middle of the floor to party.
[00:09:34] Speaker C: Hey, they're in a bag. They. They have not been spoiled.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: They've not been spoiled. They're still good.
[00:09:37] Speaker C: No one needs to know where they came from.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: And guys are like, great. I mean, even they look like, oh, it's in the trash, but it's clean trash. All right, I'll go.
[00:09:44] Speaker C: We're all trash pandas at some point.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: I love. I love our standards. Well, Mark, we are so excited to have you on, man. So I had a chance to. To. To read through Mark's book, and I loved it. I loved his heart, I loved his desire. And so, Mark, share a little bit about yourself with our listeners. And you know, who you are, where you're from, and, of course, obviously, your favorite protein shake. And so, I mean, go with that as well.
Yeah.
[00:10:09] Speaker A: So as you maybe can tell by my accent, I'm from Canada, Romanova, and currently in the Netherlands now. And the. The book that I wrote for you guys, this is the Way was an inspiration based on actually living in the Netherlands for the past. I Guess it's four years now. Wow. It was three years at the time. So I moved here because my wife is from here. We wanted to raise our kids closer to family and my wife has 32 cousins in the area, so we've got.
[00:10:38] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:40] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:10:40] Speaker A: My kids are actually at or her parents house right now as we're doing the podcast.
Yeah. So we moved here for that.
And when I moved here, I really was struggling with my faith. Not from like a personal perspective, but what I was encountering in the churches that I was experiencing locally. So there was partially a language barrier, as obviously English is not the main language here.
[00:11:06] Speaker C: Right.
[00:11:06] Speaker A: But then also just some theological differences in how church was done.
And it came to a point where I was like, man, I don't have community here.
And I imagine there's other people struggling with this, not just maybe here in the Netherlands, but across the globe. And so I was able to sit down and. And put keystrokes on the. I guess you don't put, say pen to paper anymore, but yeah.
And go through that. And I just, I built it like this is the Way is mainly as an encouragement for men. I mean, anybody could read it, but it was mainly built for encouragement to men as a. As a call to. And I intentionally, obviously used the words from Star wars in the Mandalorian, but.
[00:11:48] Speaker C: Oh, dude, I loved it.
[00:11:49] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:11:51] Speaker A: But I wanted to go back to what the people were originally called or followers of the Way. And then so this calling back men as to. To be followers of Christ.
And that's where it all started from. And I know you guys recently have joked about being dumb fishermen.
[00:12:07] Speaker C: Yes. But. Yes. Oh man.
[00:12:09] Speaker A: The story. The story of those guys being called to faith is. I love it. I absolutely love it. And there's so much that goes into that story and the words that Jesus specifically was using when he was talking to them.
[00:12:21] Speaker B: And.
[00:12:22] Speaker C: And the illustrations, all of it like. Like it was geared towards.
Everyone needs to get this. So I'm going to make sure everyone can understand what's going on. So I'm going to use sheep because everyone understood that at the time and I absolutely love it. So I would love to know a little bit about, like, what was some of the culture shocks, you know, not just being in the Netherlands vs. Canada, a. As well as being like just within the church. Like, what were some of the specific culture shocks that you were experiencing where God was stirring you to write this book for others?
[00:12:55] Speaker A: Yeah. So great question.
I actually just made a substack post about this earlier this week substack post was talking about what the difference between being in a community but being present in a community. And one of the things that I've experienced.
Yeah. So one of the experiences I had, I got locked in a church parking lot. I've been going to church for most of my life, but I've never been locked in a church parking lot.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:13:20] Speaker A: In the Netherlands. And I was ended up found myself, I couldn't get out of the parking lot.
[00:13:24] Speaker C: So that's hilarious.
[00:13:26] Speaker A: Well, so I've thought about doing a book and I say this kind of like tongue in cheek, but a book of pictures of. It's just churches with steel fences around them. Because churches here all have like 8 foot steel fences around them. And then also due to water management, many of the churches also have moats around them. So for my substack post that I posted just a couple days ago, it's a church that has a moat around it and then an eight foot steel fence around it. And that's not the only one. In my community in multiple churches just in the town that I live in are set up like that.
[00:14:01] Speaker C: And I'm like the non verbals on that are crazy.
[00:14:04] Speaker B: Visitors welcome right here.
[00:14:06] Speaker C: If you bring your own canoe.
[00:14:07] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:09] Speaker C: Your own rock climbing equipment.
[00:14:11] Speaker B: Please come mind the dragon.
[00:14:13] Speaker C: I mean, man.
[00:14:16] Speaker A: So yeah, that's. So that's kind of where it was birthed from is like, man, there's these churches here and they are definitely in the community. Like some of them have been here for literally centuries.
But how relevant are they being into the community that they're actually in? Are they just there or are they present?
And what I was experiencing was that there was a lack of presence and that wasn't just necessarily within the church. I've kind of found that the Dutch culture as a whole is very sort of like keep to yourself culture. And it takes a long time to try to get through. And even now after being here for four years, the people who I would say I'm probably closest to or have the deeper relationships with are more North American in their behaviors or in being able to talk or in the way they think and that kind of stuff.
[00:15:10] Speaker B: So how would you, you know, it kind of makes me think what is the makeup or I guess nature of most of the guys that come to the. To come to those churches? Like, like what have you noticed from the outside? I'm not trying to just point a finger, but I'm curious to see how culturally different they are.
You know, they. Are they subdued or you know Share a little bit about what your perspective is from that.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Yeah, so the churches is really divided. The Netherlands actually has a pretty interesting history, if you. And this is something we also could go into a whole other podcast about. But talking about the Reformation, I really enjoy that area time of church history. But the. The Netherlands was really influential in, in the Protestant faith. Right. So in the 1700s, they actually fought like wars against the Spanish to preserve the Protestant faith and make those kind of stands. There's still a part of the country here that's Catholic. The southern part of the country is Catholic. The rest of the country is Protestant. Although as of the most recent census results, that the Netherlands is considered to be an unchurched country with like only 42% of people claiming to be adhering to a Christian faith.
And which is crazy because in 19, as late as 1970, it was as high as 90% were claiming to be a faith. Right. So we've seen a significant declines in the last few decades. But within that Protestant faith, there is the. The dominant faith within that is 90% of the Protestant churches in the Netherlands are of Calvinistic denomination.
Varying different parts of that. And there's only a small percentage of the churches that are evangelical, and then even smaller when you start to look at, like, Baptist or Anglican denominations.
And so when we look at the guys who are attending the churches, a lot of them are very, what you think of as Reformed church.
People, like, you have to dress up, and there's a scale for that. So we live in the middle of two churches.
The church on our right is a little more concern or a little more liberal, I guess. And then the church on the left is more conservative, and you can see by who's going to which church, because the church people over here are wearing, like, the flat black hats and black clothing, and the women are all wearing dresses and that. And the ones going to the other church are a little bit more free in what they're wearing. So, yeah, it's, it's. That's kind of the. The predominant culture of the church here.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: So a while ago, I was at a conference and the speaker was talking about, if you want to know where the American church is headed, look to where the European church is today. And I think there's a lot to learn from that. And I would love to know your perspective, like, now that you've lived that for four years, kind of experiencing that. What would you say back to the church in Canada or North America to be like, hey, this is what it looks like to be present and this is what it looks like to just be in proximity to people around you. What would you encourage the churches, or more importantly, the followers, the disciples that are in the North American church because of the pressure that we're feeling to just be quiet, to not get engaged in politics, not get engaged in the social stuff, which I can understand to a certain degree. But what would you say to them?
[00:18:33] Speaker A: I'm going to speak to the history of this country a little bit and then I'll address your question through that. So as I said already up until about the 1970s there, people were identifying quite strongly with the, within the Christian faith. Well, what happened just before that was the end of the war, right? And there's a saying that there's no, no atheists in the foxholes, right?
So we look at, we've got generations of war. We've got the, the country fighting against the Spanish in the 80 Years War. We've had World War I, we've had World War II. We've had a lot of fighting that's happened over the years within this country. And then after 1970, things kind of settled down and we've now seen those, the generations and we get.
I'm gonna tie a couple things in, I think here. I just, I preached a sermon actually recently on Psalm 73 and the ASAP was talking about, look at these people around me. They're, there's. Their eyeballs are so fat. They're so fat. Their eyeballs are fat.
[00:19:26] Speaker C: Right? And those are my people.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: But what he's saying is like, look, man, look how comfortable that these people have become in all of the wealth. And I think that because since we don't have, we've, we've got to such a place of comfort, we're able to drift.
And if you were to ask the church, if you were to see the church post war, Post World War II, they were like, no, we got to hold our faith, right? But as generations pass by, there's a drift that happens.
And so my comment to the church, whether it's here in the Netherlands or into the United States, I think I can see the example and see what's happened here already. And my, my word to the US would be drift happens unintentionally. If you want to preserve and live into something, you have to be intentional. So be intentional what you're doing, otherwise you're going to unintentionally drift is what I would say to you guys.
[00:20:22] Speaker C: So good. So what would be some of those intentional things that you would encourage the church to continue to engage in. Because. Because, yeah, I agree wholeheartedly. And what's funny is this is not a new story. You see this happen with the Israelites throughout the Old Testament. When the hard times were there, they would return back to God and they.
And they would re. Establish that relationship. But then once they got to the promised land, they got fat and happy. Their eyes were so fat, they started relying more on themselves and forgot that it's the God of the universe that brings the rain and brings the water and allows the fertile soil to give you the comfort that you have.
[00:20:58] Speaker B: You know, even as you're talking, it makes me think about this one guy in this sea of that all the time. Like, what do I do right? It can almost feel overwhelming that it's like, okay, I'm just gonna stay in my lane. But what are some things truly, that they can do to really make an impact?
[00:21:16] Speaker A: Yeah, great questions. I think that. So I'm gonna stick with that being intentional. I'll give you examples here. So the whole city of Rotterdam, which is the city that's closest to me, it's about 10 minutes from where I live, was bombed totally flat during the war, except for the church, literally. It's a crazy story if you want to go look it up. The whole city was bombed. Exc. One church building in the middle of the city stood, and everything around it was complete shambles.
And that church still stands. And they have a celebration for this. And now the city has risen up. And if you see the difference between the Rotterdam and Amsterdam, the Amsterdam is a very old city, Rotterdam is a very new city because of this bombing that occurred.
And it's 86 years now since that bombing happened. And if you ask people about it, they're like, I don't know. And so what happened is that history is getting lost. And when we look at things like this, and it's coming from a world of like a financial.
This is often used in the financial world, but it applies, I think, within our faith context. And as you mentioned, we see this repeatedly happen.
There's a generation of builders who have fought for something. So we look at something like Gideon, for example, right? He tore down the tore down, build it up fight. And then what comes after him, the generation behind him, is like, get out of here. We're building it up again, right?
And we see these things. So we have these builder generation who fought for something, and then we have the generation that follows. And when I say generation, it doesn't necessarily mean actual, like one physical generation generation could span a period of time. But the next group that follows is what's called the maintainers. So they, they're not fighting themselves, but they do remember the history, they heard the stories and they're living into the inheritance of what those builders left for them. And then the following behind that is the squanderers who are just like, hey, yeah, this is great. We're living in all this freedom and this life is good and let's go, man. And they don't know the stories and the histories and the battles that were fought.
[00:23:15] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:23:16] Speaker A: So then what ends up happening as a result of that is we have another builder generation that needs to come back.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Right.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: And so when you're asking what could I.
What could you give to people, man? Tell the stories, tell the stories of the builders so that people understand what we had or what we didn't have and what we had to fight for. Right. So living where I do here in Europe, I get, I've had the opportunity to travel. I've stood on Omaha beach and looked, looked up and been like, man, I cannot, like, if you guys ever get a chance to do that, like it's really worth going there and just being like, I cannot, like, I get shivers even just thinking about it now as I'm talking and I walked onto the beach and you're standing there, you're looking up and you're like, man, these, these 17 year old kids had no chance, literally no chance. It's just a wall that's got mountains on the other side, like an edge on the other side of it. And it's just, you can still see the gun turrets and stuff. And you're just like, this is bizarre, man.
[00:24:15] Speaker C: And so the courage and the bravery to get out of the boat and go had to be overwhelming for those guys, you know?
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Yeah, well, and then so to get there and so you can actually go and stand on the beach, but then you go up in the, the different beachheads, so you've got Sword beach and, and Normandy and the, or the sort of the Canadian beach and stuff where they have, each one of them has done their own thing. And I want to give credit to the US here. The one, the Omaha beach landing and the, the memorial that the Americans have set up is unbelievably, it's.
But it truly is row upon row of white crosses as far as you can see in multiple directions. And when you kind of like really feel the weightiness of that and you're like, I'm standing here in complete freedom because of what These men did, right? Yeah. It's like, whoa, I gotta. I gotta take this into perspective and how I live. And then we look at that from an Old Testament perspective or a New Testament perspective and go, whoa, I don't want to just live in the inheritance. I want to be a builder.
[00:25:19] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:25:19] Speaker A: So that's what the encouragement would be is to, whatever it is, build. Build your family.
[00:25:24] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:25:25] Speaker C: Build.
[00:25:26] Speaker A: Build your business, build your church. Build whatever it is that God has laid on you as your call and in your ministry and into your life is be the builder, is what I would say.
[00:25:36] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: I love it. And I know Bill has a question, but it reminds me of two things. Number one is there's so much to learn from the macro when you apply it to the micro. And it's this idea of, like, I know guys that have come to faith and they're building a family that's different than the legacy that they were handed.
[00:25:52] Speaker B: Right?
[00:25:52] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:53] Speaker C: And it's always that question of, like, how do they pass that on, that building spirit to their kids so that their grandkids aren't squanderers, but their grandkids are like, no, this is value. And I think you hit it. The stories we share are really important. They form so much. And we have got to become better at telling the hard stories of our lives, not just the warm, fuzzy stories of our lives.
[00:26:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:26:17] Speaker C: And that's, for me as a dad, like, I have to become bold and telling my kids of my own struggles. Not hiding them like Adam and Eve, but coming out and saying, God has shined the light on this. So I have nothing to hide. I have nothing to fear. I have nothing to be embarrassed about. This is how God's redemptive work has been in me, and this is how the building has taken place. So, Bill, what was your question?
[00:26:35] Speaker B: No, it made me think. There is a theme that is starting and erupting in America of, I guess the statement that the older generation needs to pass the baton on to the young gen. Like, they don't have a place.
And I think the encouragement that made me just come to mind through the spirit was just, man, if you're out there as a grandfather, we need you. We need you to grab the heart of your kids. We need you to take your grandkids out to Chick Fil A or whatever, or Tim Hortons or whatever you need to and share your life. Like. Like, they're never gonna ask it flat out, but they want it.
[00:27:13] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:27:14] Speaker B: And there's something about sharing that story because we have Believed that our stories don't matter. I remember sitting with a guy at my old church, amazing man of God. And I think I've shared this story before, but I'll share it again because I'm an old guy now and I can keep sharing things. And it's our podcast. We can do what we want to.
But I remember him telling me that someone came to the church, a new leader, and said, we. We just. We don't really have a place for you here. And I said, that is an outright lie.
[00:27:40] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:27:40] Speaker B: This guy. I said, you've been married 47 years.
I go, you have seen what it's like to work hard. You are a first generation, build it from the ground individual whose dad wasn't in your life. You have so much to offer. We need you to step up and be that person. I think that story is exactly because people can't argue with your story.
[00:27:58] Speaker C: Right.
[00:27:59] Speaker B: And so I love this because then we do. We do bridge that gap because it is that. You see it even in scripture. The third generation just somehow fades away.
[00:28:06] Speaker C: Right.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: It's because these stories aren't shared.
[00:28:09] Speaker C: It reminds me of the song. You should have seen it in color.
[00:28:11] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:28:13] Speaker C: You know, all these black and white photos that the kids start asking granddad about, and he goes, oh, you should see. And that's what the stories have a chance to do, is bring these black and white moments of history, add the color to it in such a way that stirs the hearts and the minds to come alive, you know?
[00:28:28] Speaker B: Yeah. Like, I mean, if you were born in the 1900s, your voice has value in a generation that does not know.
I know. My kids are like, you're born in 1990s. I'm like, shut up.
[00:28:39] Speaker C: Our phones had chords.
[00:28:40] Speaker B: Exactly. And we had one of them. We had one of them. And mom would get mad when you got on the Internet, you know, so. But I'm saying our stories are so valuable. We stop denying the power of what God wants to do in your voice to the next generation. It's neat. And if you don't have grandchildren, there are children. There are. There are men and women around you who need to hear your stories. So it doesn't matter about your. Your physical heritage. It is what you can pass on
[00:29:05] Speaker C: and be raw with the story. Don't sugarcoat it like a apple cider donut.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: Be raw. I remember. I remember, Mark. I was sitting one time. I kind of grew up in the VFW post. You know, my. My dad was. Was in Vietnam and things like that. And so I was kind of built to say thank you to anybody who had like the crest on their, on their hat. And I remember stopping a guy. We were driving up to Colorado and I stopped a guy and this, I just said, hey, thank you for your service. Thank you. And this guy goes, he looks at me, he said, let me tell you a story, son. He shared two stories with me. One of them was a story about the guy who was Kennedy's pilot.
[00:29:39] Speaker C: What?
[00:29:40] Speaker B: And the second one was his roommate in, in. In basic was the guy on the Enola Gay.
[00:29:47] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:29:48] Speaker B: And you're like, I would have never got that story.
[00:29:51] Speaker C: That's the color of the story.
[00:29:53] Speaker B: So I say that, that I'm like, guys, your stories matter. And these guys are waiting. I'm saying it more because this guy was like, wait, wait, wait, let me tell you a story before you leave. And I'm like, okay. And so, so I mean it's like, yeah, your story matters. And these guys want to tell it and these kids want to hear it. So I'm sorry we totally derailed the thoughts market, but yeah, okay, so keep on going, man. Share more about your book. Kind of, Kind of what, what you're hoping to see happen. Because I know, I know when I wrote a book, I had a desired end. What is the desired end you'd like to see happen in, in, in. In your writing?
[00:30:21] Speaker C: It's a good question.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: How, how, like I said, have men understand who they are in Christ, right? And so, I mean, I don't have specific research data to back this up, but I think that there's enough
[00:30:37] Speaker B: practical
[00:30:38] Speaker A: data that shows that when a dad starts attending a church and dad starts participating in ministry and dad is following Christ that the family is following.
[00:30:46] Speaker C: Right?
[00:30:46] Speaker A: And so the 100. It's a call to men to. If we want to change the things that we see happening in society, then we are going to be the ones that need to make the change and, and start living that out. Right. And I say that with an air of caution. I don't want this to be like a self help sort of like, yeah, we can change ourselves. No, we need the Holy Spirit and the grace of God to change and work within us.
So good questions. But, but if we want to be, see a different society around us, a different Judea, Jerusalem and all the world. Right? Like, yes, then we've got to. Or we've got to start and, and be that. Be that change. Right?
[00:31:33] Speaker B: So, well, it, you know, you, you said there is a statistic that if a dad. If a mom brings their kids to church, there's a 1 in 50 chance that the kids are going to continue after. This is just the act of going to church. There's no spirituality with this. If the dad brings their kids to church, there's between a two thirds and a 75% chance those kids will continue after.
[00:31:52] Speaker C: So. Good.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: So the void. You're right. You're extremely right.
You're spot on. Correct. And so, yeah, this is huge. And.
[00:32:00] Speaker C: Well, and just I was thinking about. So, you know, my dad served in Vietnam, but he never talked about it.
And I think there's a lot of guys that we have gone through stuff in our lives that we're just like, I never want to talk about that. And what we're missing is the healing that God brings to us as we talk about it. It.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:32:18] Speaker C: And it's not just for us. There's shrapnel that's shared. As we talk about some of that stuff with people, they become blessed by it, they become encouraged by it, and they begin to realize, wait a second. This part of my life that I think is defining me is not defining me. It's actually the leaping off point that God is redeeming me.
And so did I. I. Man, first off, thank you so much for writing that book. I.
I'm excited to read it. I know Bill's read it, and.
[00:32:43] Speaker B: Yeah, we'll put the links below, so.
[00:32:46] Speaker C: Absolutely. And thank you for being a missionary in a culture that doesn't like to talk about these things. How hard is it to know that the story of Christ is a personal story and yet it has global implications?
And to be a champion of that in a culture that is stuck in themselves, I think is really powerful.
[00:33:09] Speaker B: Absolutely. Well, man, as we're finishing up, before we get into Fast Five, any final
[00:33:14] Speaker C: thoughts or any takeaway action items?
[00:33:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. What's your. What would you say is the call to action that you'd like these guys to have today?
[00:33:23] Speaker A: I'm gonna say Jeremiah 29, build in Babylon.
So I love it. We're looking at. I'm gonna say, we see, Daniel. We see. I'm gonna use their Babylonian names.
[00:33:37] Speaker C: And I.
[00:33:37] Speaker A: It's a quiz that I have for people. So I know before the show, you guys were asking me a quiz question.
What are the. What are the Hebrew names of Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego? And most people don't know what that is, but we know them by their Babylonian names, which I think is a little bit disappointing. But with that said, my call to action would be to build in Babylon. And we look at Daniel, we look at Shadrach, Meshach, and Abednego. They didn't bend to the king when they were asked to, but they served the king in that community that they were in. Right.
And that would be. My call is like, where you're at, build.
You don't have to bow down and worship something else, but you can build where you're at and build faithfully. And we see that all throughout Scripture.
[00:34:20] Speaker C: That's. That's mic drop stuff. Don't bend to the culture. But build.
[00:34:25] Speaker B: And he's.
It's Rack Shack and Benny. I don't know if you knew that that's the name I suggest fun fact for you guys. I don't know. No. Yeah, I'm sort of going, Michelle, I'm trying to think all the actual names, and I'm like, Daniel, I definitely got Daniel. So. But no, that. That's a challenge. But no, man, I love it. I love this call to action, guys. Make sure you are proactive. Pick up this book, Connect with Mark. If you're in the Netherlands, you got a friend in the Netherlands, you got a friend that is looking for it. And. And so. So, yeah, no, this is awesome, Mark. Thank you so much. And as we finish up, we have our fast five.
Yeah. We'd like to do with you. So drive time with drive time.
Anyways, ticket giveaway in five minutes.
[00:35:15] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:35:15] Speaker B: Exactly. Anyways, back in the day, what is a current book you're reading right now?
[00:35:22] Speaker A: The writings of Martin Luther.
[00:35:24] Speaker C: Dude, those are my people. That's it. That's fantastic.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: Yeah. Because I'm finishing my last course in seminary for my. Before I have to hand in my dissertation. So I have some coursework work.
And I'm actually one of the courses I'm taking is on the Reformation. And so we've been assigned the primary sources. I mean, obviously translated English, but the primary sources. And I'm actually really. I really enjoy reading them. And I would encourage other people to try. I know that it's sometimes difficult language, but those guys were so ridiculously sarcastic towards each other.
[00:35:55] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
Yes. And. And it goes to the. The theme Build, Build, where you build in Babylon. And Luther is a guy who was convicted by the spirit and stood up. And his favorite line is, here I stand, I can do no other. And he was willing to not bend to the powers that be, but he built something that is still impacting us today.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: And then one day someone's like, what's that knocking.
Yes.
[00:36:22] Speaker C: It's just that uppity Luther.
Take that bad haircut Luther, as we call him.
[00:36:30] Speaker B: Awesome. Okay, number two, what is something you. I am can.
What's something you're excited about right now? I'm getting old. I need new contacts. I guess. Something you're excited about right now in life.
[00:36:42] Speaker A: Oh, man. Something I'm excited about right now.
[00:36:45] Speaker B: I love.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: I really enjoy going to watch local football games. When I say football, I mean soccer games.
[00:36:50] Speaker C: Soccer.
[00:36:51] Speaker A: And if you've never experienced the European games, a soccer game, it is vastly different than a North American sport. And so the team that I support is a small club from Rotterdam and they have several games coming up in the next few days, back to back. Like within, like, I think within like a week, they have three games, which is unusual for soccer.
[00:37:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:14] Speaker A: And so I'm really excited for that.
[00:37:16] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:37:16] Speaker B: I've watched Ted Lasso. Does that count?
[00:37:18] Speaker C: No.
It's a gateway drug. It's a gateway drug to European soccer. And I would. I would totally agree with you, Mark. There's my Saturday mornings, I wake up, I turn on English Premier League and I watch it till the last match at 2 o'. Clock. And then Sunday morning I'm up watching again until church. I. I love European soccer. It is fantastic. Were you excited about the World cup in Holland and what he was doing for you guys?
[00:37:43] Speaker A: Well, the Dutch didn't do so well.
[00:37:47] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, they didn't.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Of all the things. So I'm gonna play my Canada card here and be like, canada finished better than the Netherlands in the World Cup. That, like, since when does that happen?
[00:37:56] Speaker C: It's very true, very true.
[00:37:59] Speaker B: I don't even know the game, guys. I'm good, I'm good.
[00:38:01] Speaker C: We'll talk offline. More soccer. Exactly.
[00:38:04] Speaker B: Number three, if you could pick one decade to go back to, what would it be?
[00:38:09] Speaker A: I'm gonna. I'm gonna go back to when the Witten. The. The Gutenberg press was invented, because I think that was pretty. I know that's like centuries, but also that's okay.
[00:38:18] Speaker B: It's a decade. It can be a decade.
[00:38:20] Speaker A: So I'd go back to when the. The press was invented because it was just such a ridiculous time in church history. And like I said, these guys. There was a group of guys that were going off on each other and it would have been fascinating to be alive during that time. I think now I say, I'll say I go back to visit. I wouldn't want to necessarily live in that time period, but I Would go back and visit that time.
[00:38:42] Speaker B: The whole dysentery thing just kind of throws me off a little bit.
[00:38:45] Speaker C: The lack of toilet paper would.
[00:38:49] Speaker B: Oh, man. All right, what is your favorite? Now you're like a workout guy, but what is your favorite fast food to eat?
[00:38:56] Speaker A: So, yeah, again, culturally, the Netherlands doesn't actually have a lot of fast food places. So that makes life trying to live life a little healthier, easier. But I will say I'm a sucker for five guys. There's a five guys near the church that I was talking about and that's like sort of the date place that my wife and I'll go.
[00:39:15] Speaker B: So for some in America, that's called health food. Just so you know.
[00:39:19] Speaker C: I didn't know if you.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: Fun fact for you.
[00:39:21] Speaker C: It's high protein, right? Exactly.
[00:39:23] Speaker A: I do get the lettuce wrap version of it, so as.
[00:39:26] Speaker C: Of course you do. Of course you do. I didn't even know there was an option, Mark.
[00:39:30] Speaker B: The specimen oxer. You know what I'm saying? That's what we have right over here.
[00:39:34] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:39:35] Speaker C: I asked for extra bread on mine. I'm like, just put three buns on there.
[00:39:38] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:39:39] Speaker C: I'm good.
[00:39:39] Speaker B: I'm in that high carb, low protein kind of diet.
Oh, man.
[00:39:44] Speaker C: Again, if you want to give to the health fund, please, please, please.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: All right, number five, if you could give one piece of advice to your younger self, what would it be?
[00:39:53] Speaker C: It's a good one.
[00:39:57] Speaker A: Yeah, man. I think it would be with regards to what we're talking about with sort of that building and really understanding that your legacy is what you leave behind.
And so the impact that you have in other people's lives, whether that's friends, family, co workers, whatever it happens to be, is I've heard it sort of said and you guys have probably heard it said otherwise as well. Like when you see it's on your tombstone, you've got the. Your birth and your death day. What's the dash? What happened in the dash?
[00:40:28] Speaker B: Yeah, right. Yeah.
[00:40:29] Speaker A: And so what's the legacy that you're leaving for others?
[00:40:34] Speaker C: I love it. So good. So good.
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Awesome, man. This has been great. Mark, we will definitely have you on again. This was. This is fun. I want to hear more about the impact in the Netherlands and all. And all you've got next. And so, man, thank you so much for being on guys.
[00:40:46] Speaker C: So good.
[00:40:46] Speaker B: You can check out Mark's book. We will put the link below. You go to markoxer.com right.com. make sure I didn't have a.org in there.com and check him out. Also check out our seven day wake up guy wake up guide and seven day reset we have for you. If you want to grow in your faith, we have that for you. It's a free resource that we'd love you guys to check out.
That link will be below. That link will be below. That link will be below whatever that is. And thank you for putting up with my crazy words. And so Travis, any final thoughts?
[00:41:19] Speaker C: You have a story and God has redeemed it and he is ready for you to share it and impact the generations around you. So share all of your story. Nothing needs to hide in the light of Christ.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: Amen guys. Have a great week. We will see you soon.
[00:41:35] Speaker C: God bless you.
[00:41:37] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy podcast. We'd love to hear from you. So email us your questions or comments to infonolegacy.org.
