Desires of your heart and the long road ahead

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:02] Speaker B: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis. [00:00:16] Speaker C: Good morning, Bill. [00:00:17] Speaker B: Good and talk. [00:00:18] Speaker C: Oh, we're going German today. [00:00:20] Speaker B: I'm worried. I'm working on my languages. My languages. [00:00:22] Speaker C: You know, we are getting close to October fest, so I appreciate you working on that. That's fantastic. [00:00:26] Speaker B: Dunka Shane. Is that the right word? [00:00:29] Speaker C: Yeah, I think so. Because the only way I know that is because of Felix Bueller's day. [00:00:33] Speaker B: I literally was just going to say the same. I5 donka shame. That's so awesome. That was such a good movie. [00:00:40] Speaker C: Classic. That's one of the movies that I hope they never remake. Like, there's no way you could remake it. [00:00:45] Speaker B: Stop remake. Stop. Look, stop remaking movies. [00:00:49] Speaker C: Hollywood. Listen to us. [00:00:51] Speaker B: Be creative. I got an idea. Let's remake a movie from 30 years. [00:00:54] Speaker C: Ago in a world of a few billion people. There's gotta be some great clever new stories that tell old truths that will resonate with the heart of humanity. We don't need to Rehash Frozen Part 17 and another Marvel movie. [00:01:11] Speaker B: If you do Back to the Future again, I'm literally gonna come to your doors. [00:01:15] Speaker C: We've been back. [00:01:15] Speaker B: Don't do that. [00:01:16] Speaker C: We've been back enough. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Marty's McFly the coop. Okay, stop. That was good. That was really good. Hey, welcome to the show today. Thank you so much for being here. We're so glad. [00:01:27] Speaker C: Listening. [00:01:28] Speaker B: Yeah, we're still. I think you're still listening. I think at this point, you know, our stupidity. Yeah. Knows no bounds. And so we are glad to have you, Travis. Glad to see your face, Kyle. [00:01:35] Speaker C: See you, Bill. [00:01:35] Speaker B: How are you doing? [00:01:36] Speaker D: Good, good, thank you. [00:01:37] Speaker C: Producer Kyle in the corner. Fantastic. [00:01:39] Speaker B: We are so pumped to have you guys. You know, Travis does but I'm going to try this. Man, we are so glad to have you here today, man. We where we want men to wake up, gear up and come alive, man. We are so excited for this interview today as well as the question of the day. [00:01:52] Speaker C: Right. And if you want to follow us, you can always do it on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram if you want to leave a review. We'd be more than happy for do for you to do that. Sharing it is always a way to love and care for our mission and ministry. If you're looking for a place to make a donation to support us, this does not happen just out of the goodness of our heart. And if you want to make a well, it Does. [00:02:12] Speaker B: Well, it happens out of the goodness, but actually does. We don't pay for it out of goodness. I guess sometimes we do. [00:02:17] Speaker A: Right. [00:02:18] Speaker C: So if you want to support us, [email protected] or you can go to the website and there's a little donation button there. And we are tax exempt and so you can always get credit for that if you so choose. And man, I'm excited about that. So here's the question again. We're recording this second interview today, which I'm excited about, and it's on September 11th and 2025 for a little reference. And so my mind is a little bit in that reflective stage. And so here's the question for us, gentlemen. All of us have had that moment where there's something that's happened in our culture or in our, in our own lives that kind of woke us up to the reality of the world and maybe robbed us of our innocence, our childhood innocence, you might say. Like, for me, I remember I was in sixth grade and we were in a creative and performing arts school there in Rockford, Illinois, and it was a smaller sixth grade. There's only like 20, 25 of us. And we, we had all been assigned different shuttle crews because we had the big shuttle launch that was happening. Right, okay. And I was the captain, thank you very much, of the Challenger, which turned out to be. Not the one to be the captain of. And I remember the math teacher had the one TV in the hallway and we all got in the room and we're all watching the launch of the Challenger. And I just remember sitting there and just being in awe of like, like, like, I can still vividly see the seat I was in. The. The classmates that were around me, it happening. And us, of course, because we're all big fans of, you know, Red dawn. Immediately going to the Russians blew it up, you know, and just, just that whole week, two, three weeks of investigations trying to figure out what happened. And, and my dad worked for an aerospace company and so he had parts of that were on the shuttle. So his life became engulfed because they're trying to figure out was it our parts that failed? Was it, you know, how did our part play into that whole thing? So it was that for me was like this moment of like, wow, the world is a lot bigger and to some degree scarier than I thought it was. [00:04:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:04:21] Speaker C: How about you guys? [00:04:22] Speaker B: That's it. Travis, what about. Or Kyle, what about you? [00:04:24] Speaker D: Oh, coming to me, huh? [00:04:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I'm going to come to you. [00:04:28] Speaker D: October 31, 1976. [00:04:32] Speaker B: Okay. [00:04:33] Speaker D: Probably before you guys are born. But my mom had taken me and my brothers. They were 8 at the time. I was 11. Out trick or treating in Lancaster, Ohio. [00:04:42] Speaker C: Okay. [00:04:43] Speaker D: And just walking down the street, and here. So funny. [00:04:49] Speaker C: The bag. [00:04:50] Speaker A: Oh. [00:04:51] Speaker D: Hear the squealing brakes and, you know, a thud. [00:04:56] Speaker B: Oh, no. [00:04:56] Speaker D: And a kid had been hit crossing the street just right by us. So everybody just sort of stood there, and my mom just walked out to him and put her coat over him. [00:05:10] Speaker B: You were that close? [00:05:11] Speaker D: Yeah, yeah, it was like 10ft away. [00:05:13] Speaker B: Wow. [00:05:13] Speaker D: And then we just. I don't know how long it was. It seemed like it was hours, but until ambulance and police got there, nobody. [00:05:22] Speaker B: Had cell phones and nobody. [00:05:24] Speaker D: So. But. But yeah, that's. And that was the end of the trick or treating. And that was the moment I realized, hey. [00:05:33] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's pretty time, bro. You made a really heavy question today. [00:05:37] Speaker C: I apologize. What's our favorite ice cream? [00:05:39] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:05:41] Speaker C: Wow. Wow, that. And that's such a formative, like. Yeah, that's such a formative moment to see that and experience that. Bill, how about you? [00:05:48] Speaker B: So I had shared one earlier that I was thinking about, but actually, it's changed for me. There was so this. There was a kid at school who actually, ironically, now that you say it, was hit. And I didn't know him well, but I remember seeing him the few days before at school and then finding out he got hit by a car and was killed. And his name was Chris. And I remember that, like, clear as day, because we ended up going to his funeral. His funeral was actually the same day as the O.J. simpson trial. Like, when they. [00:06:19] Speaker C: They gave the verdict. [00:06:20] Speaker B: They gave the verdict was literally as we were driving to. His funeral was the same day. And I remember that being, like, he was only a grade younger than me. [00:06:27] Speaker C: Wow. [00:06:28] Speaker B: And how quick. How fast life went, you know? And then even a few years before that, I think it was. It was the Waco. The Waco stuff, right. And then seeing, like, the Branch Davidian burning up and whatever our political views are. Whatever. But, like, to see those people, you're like, that's the first time, like, people are dying in there right now. And that was just so. So just that, like, sharpness of, like, wow, life is short. So, yeah, those kind of moments really hit me hard. But. [00:06:55] Speaker C: All right, next time, I'm gonna come up with a really happy question. [00:06:58] Speaker B: And my favorite. My favorite ice cream is chocolate. Chocolate. Chocolate. So I love it. Which, you know, now that we're at this high moment, man, I want to Introduce our. Our guest, Benji. [00:07:11] Speaker C: Benji. I'm sorry. [00:07:13] Speaker B: So glad to have you on lead for Benji ever. Exactly. Sorry, Benji. We've just dep everything. Singer, songwriter, man extraordinaire. And I'm so glad to have him on. We are so excited. Benji, thanks for being on today. [00:07:25] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Looking for. This is fun. [00:07:28] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, how about you? What's your most traumatic experience now that we're going through? [00:07:33] Speaker A: Gosh, I'm gonna take us like right back down to Debbie Downerland. [00:07:37] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:38] Speaker A: But it really like. So I had. When I was in sixth grade, there was, let's see, this would have been. Yeah, before. I think it was before seventh grade, but I had four friends and I like to imagine, like, it kind of felt like, you remember the movie Stand by Me? [00:07:51] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:07:52] Speaker A: Like we were. Four of us were those. We hung out like non stop the entire summer. And so again, not to get super heavy, but I remember Saturday night, Saturday morning, getting a. My mom. You know, it's like back when we didn't. We. Nobody. Everybody didn't have their own phone. We had one in the house. [00:08:15] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. [00:08:16] Speaker A: Mom answers the phone and she, she comes and gets me and she says, benji, you need to get on the phone. And so one of the guys from that crew, his name was John Haney Zadirka, had basically just the night before, had been in a car wreck and passed away. And so again, heavy. But I remember that was the first time, really the real first, face to face with grief and with, you know, just how short life is. And that's super heavy. But you asked the question. [00:08:44] Speaker B: Yes, yes, you did. And now what's your favorite ice cream flavor, please? [00:08:50] Speaker A: Mostly. Mostly all of probably rocky roads to go to, but pretty much all of them. [00:08:56] Speaker B: Okay, good. I like that. Anything that includes milk and sugar, I'm good with. So. [00:09:00] Speaker C: Well, what I do find fascinating is, is like for most of us, it was in that early junior high, mid junior high time that, you know, that experience, that rose came off the bloom, so to speak, or the bloom came off the rose. I don't know how the saying is. [00:09:14] Speaker B: I don't know, but it sounded good both ways. [00:09:16] Speaker C: Right? But yeah, it's fascinating. So. Yeah. And I think for. To wrap up this conversation, I guess it's important for us to sit with those and be reminded of those because it does stir within us empathy. Because I promise you, people have some of those moments in their own lives, some of them more recently than others, that they've never been able to overcome. They've never been able to move beyond. And they still sit in that. And as we gather with people and as maybe they come at us to have empathy towards them, saying, man, maybe I'm just wearing the mask of a demon. They've been fighting for a long time. [00:09:48] Speaker B: And it's not all that pain and stuff. Yeah. [00:09:50] Speaker C: It's against something else that maybe I'm representing at this moment, at this time. [00:09:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:09:55] Speaker C: So it was hope and redemption there, man. [00:09:56] Speaker B: It was a good question. So don't, don't, don't take that bad. It just was. It's amazing how those, those moments that we just forget about them. So. [00:10:03] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:10:04] Speaker A: But in those moments agree on something. [00:10:05] Speaker B: What's that? [00:10:06] Speaker A: Can we all agree that nothing. There's nothing redemptive about middle school? [00:10:11] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah. I actually told my kids, both of them, I said, if you can make it through middle school, you can literally make it through anything. [00:10:17] Speaker A: Like, like you just survive it. Like, literally. I had the borderline same conversation. I was like, look, these next three years, they're meant to be survived. That's it. [00:10:26] Speaker B: That's it. That's it. The, the, the. Yeah, the, the food chain gets developed and man, it's like, oh, the pecking order and it's terrible. But yeah, it is. [00:10:35] Speaker A: There's. Yeah, there's a moment you're going to believe Darwin, but don't. [00:10:39] Speaker B: Don't believe him. [00:10:40] Speaker A: Don't believe it will be survival of the fittest for about three years. [00:10:43] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:10:44] Speaker C: And then you'll believe mercy and grace because you're like, how did that person survive? [00:10:48] Speaker B: Exactly. Oh, my. [00:10:49] Speaker C: They should have been taken out. Darwin is true. That person should have been taken out. [00:10:53] Speaker B: Exactly. There is a God, so. Well, man, we're so glad to have you on, man. I know that, man. You, you've done a lot in the industry. I mean, share a little bit about yourself, your story, how you got into songwriting, just who you are. Please share some stuff about yourself, brother. [00:11:07] Speaker A: All right. The short version is I was, I grew up in Nashville, grew up around it, and so I went to college, went to Belmont, did the whole music business. And the two things I said I'd never do were I would never go to seminary and I'd never be in full time ministry. And, well, guess what happened? So I ended up doing. I ended up basically leaving Nashville for 15 years, lived all over the country, and last seven years in Buffalo, New York, which is where the very painful Buffalo Bills loyalty began. [00:11:39] Speaker B: Boy, I love losing Super Bowls. [00:11:41] Speaker C: Bill's nation, baby. [00:11:42] Speaker A: Oh, my gosh. [00:11:43] Speaker B: Like, I threw that there. Sorry. [00:11:45] Speaker A: No, no, it's fair. It's like you. But you. You still can get a twitch out of people in Buffalo. When you bring that up, when you bring up. You bring up the Wide Ride or you bring the Music City Miracle, which, against the Titans, which is absolutely, for the record, should be referred to as a Music City. Missed call. Like, there's no dispute. [00:12:04] Speaker C: No bitterness there. No bitterness. [00:12:07] Speaker B: None. [00:12:07] Speaker D: Shouldn't have been in that position. [00:12:13] Speaker C: Well, Benji, was nice having you on. Thank you so much for being here and thanks for listening to no Less podcast. [00:12:18] Speaker D: I say that as a category fan. Don't be in the position. [00:12:21] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Living in Dallas, Benji, let me tell you, living in Dallas, and as a Green Bay Packer fan in Dallas, those twitches are very real. Very real. Dallas fans, like, the Micah Parsons thing still makes people's eyes twitch and just like, why. Why the Packers? Why the Packers? [00:12:38] Speaker B: I don't know. [00:12:39] Speaker C: Because we're a good organization that knows how to win. [00:12:42] Speaker B: Wow. Anyways, Benny, Benji, high squad. I'm so flustered. I called you Benny. Oh, my gosh. Anyways, go for it, man. So it's a. Buffalo, New York. You were there. [00:12:52] Speaker A: So, yeah. So we. For seven years, I was a worship pastor and just honestly, like, started writing songs, I would say maybe from the best place, which is. What are some. What are songs I wish somebody else would write for my church, because by that time, I kind of just said, okay, because I'd always want to be an artist or a songwriter in Nashville. And so when I left Nashville, it's kind of like, well, maybe this is a death to that dream. And. But happening is. So during my seven years in Buffalo, I started writing songs for our church, and I was sent. I was sending them to a guy in Nashville, and I was the. The classic. My dad had somebody in his Sunday school class who was the secretary of somebody in the music business. So I was like, well, I'll just start sending them songs. And so it was years of no. Or five years of, hey, this is good. But. And I mean, the guy that was responding to me, his name is Chad Shiger. And I will. Like, he's. He's the guy that kind of opened the door for me, so I will ever, forever be great. But he. He was five years. But he was listening to my songs and giving me feedback. And so what's funny, though, is the song that I wrote, and I was having a. Having a pity party day, basically. It was like, you know, I had. I had someone I knew in Nashville that every time I'd Bring up writing. They would just shut me down. And so I kind of was like, God, why. Why won't this door open? Why won't. And I very distinctly heard God say, who's whose name and whose opinion are you worried about? Yeah. And, I mean, it wasn't. It wasn't condescending. It was just. I was like, man. So I kind of. In that moment was like, what if it's just me writing for you and writing for this church? And it's the first time when I say. When I say, that's enough. It's the first time I really meant it, because all the other times we're all trying to play these, like, see if we can bait and switch God. Okay, God, I'm ready. It's enough. [00:14:45] Speaker B: Yes. [00:14:46] Speaker A: This is the first time where I was like, no, I'm really good. And what's ironic is I wrote that song we started singing in our church because I just kind of wrote just something, a song down. In that moment of just going, yours will be the only name that matters to me. I wrote out just kind of this prayer and wrote into a song. We started singing her at church. Well, the song, absolutely, like, just. It was just really cool to see how the church responded to it. And so I ended up just sending it to him, and I'm like, man, like, this song. [00:15:15] Speaker B: I don't. [00:15:15] Speaker A: There's something to it. I'd love your thoughts. Because by this time, I was just saying, man, just help me. Just help me write a better song. [00:15:20] Speaker C: Right, Right. [00:15:21] Speaker A: And so that was. What's funny is that's that moment of going, I'm done. Good was the song that opened the door to Nashville. [00:15:30] Speaker C: What was the song? [00:15:31] Speaker A: It's the only name that matters. Big Daddy. We've ended up recording it, of course. [00:15:35] Speaker B: Of course. Yeah. [00:15:36] Speaker A: And so that kind of. He said, can I pitch to a band? I was like, sure. And so we. I ended up meeting with Mike Weaver from the lead singer for Big Daddy Weave, and he and I. [00:15:47] Speaker C: Phenomenal guy. [00:15:48] Speaker B: Yeah. We've had him on the podcast a couple times. He's a good dude. So good, man. [00:15:51] Speaker A: Like, the real dude. He's one of the funniest human beings ever been. [00:15:54] Speaker B: Yes, he is. [00:15:55] Speaker A: And so we. So he and I, literally, we just. We connected. We down in Ashville, and. Because my family's all still here, so we were definitely coming back and forth, and he and I met up, and it was like we had lived parallel lives in ministry. We had been under the same pastors. We've been in the same places. So he and I just connected. We both had an absurd love for Beavis and Butthead, you know, quoted all the same movies, like understood the. The canon of Dumb and Dumber. Yes. And so we, you know, we just kind of was like, did we just become best friends? And so he and I, the first song we ever wrote. And this is what's so. So we jumped on. This was back when Skype was the primary way that you did anything online. And we got together and the first song we ever wrote was Redeemed and awesome. And so. And honestly, like we wrote the song. Mike told me later, but he honestly didn't even. He just thought that was for the moment, just for us. [00:16:59] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:16:59] Speaker A: Think much about it. I started doing it at my church and like just again was like, whoa, something's something happening around this. And just so that. Long story short, that song Mike. Mike began alive, started seeing ministry things around it. He, you know, at one point, probably about two or three months after a conversation he and I had had, he. I just got a text. He said, man, we're seeing stuff happen around this song in ministry that we've never seen before. Wow. And so I just got open that door. And then we wrote a bunch of songs after that that were not good. And so it just kind of felt like that was God's way of saying, I'm going to just make sure you understand who is responsible for this. [00:17:42] Speaker C: Yep. [00:17:43] Speaker B: And not about you. Yeah. [00:17:44] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:17:44] Speaker C: You didn't find a secret. You just need to write a few. [00:17:48] Speaker A: Songs in your own. We'll see how that plays out and then maybe I'll jump back in. [00:17:51] Speaker B: So. [00:17:52] Speaker C: So let me ask this question because I think this pertains to the guys that are listening in and the gals that are listening in. Is that idea of long suffering faithfulness. When you feel called to something and you're engaging in something but you don't feel or see the fruit right away, how are you able to continue to pursue that faithfulness even when it seemed like Doors. That's our classic line in the church. Well, if he opens a door, you know, and that basically means if it's going to be easy and there's gonna be tons of success, you should go for it. But if the door closes, pivot and. And it sounds like there was a lot of door closes but you didn't pivot. What. What allowed you to remain faithful even when there was not a temporal success there? [00:18:33] Speaker A: Man, that's a great like. Because that's. That's my big thing. Is like, I don't know what the middle ground is, but, like, there's something, you know, Because I. I don't even, honestly, like, it wasn't so much. I felt like this call from God to write, as much as I couldn't turn it off. [00:18:50] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:18:50] Speaker A: And there were so many things I'd read like, you know, it's like, delight yourself in the Lord. He'll give you the desires of your heart. And I'm kind of like, well, Lord, that. That desire is there, but I'm just doing it. And so I always. I'm kind of like. There's this weird line of. I think God prefers to start to steer a car once it's moving. [00:19:08] Speaker B: Yep. [00:19:11] Speaker A: For a long time, it's like, I'm just gonna do my thing and it's just gonna happen. But I'm also kind of like. But if I'd never sent those songs to my friend Chad. So there's kind of a both. And it's like me initiating. And I think that some of that's a work that God's doing in my life. I'm a very reactive person. I'm not a proactive person. [00:19:28] Speaker C: Gotcha. [00:19:29] Speaker A: And so I think God was trying to grow some proactive in me as well. But at the same time, like, I. Short of being a stalker, I just wouldn't take no for an answer. I mean, I feel like I'm kind of like, man, okay, as long as he's listening, you know? And as soon as. If I genuinely felt from Chad, like, dude, you're just bugging the crap out of me, I would have stopped. But I never got that from him. He was always very like, hey, man, we can't do anything with this. But what if you did this with the song? You know? [00:20:00] Speaker B: And so here's my new song. In fact, I like your drapes. I like the drapes of your house. [00:20:08] Speaker C: And I love that because there are so many great stories of scripture of just the faithful prayer and the faithful, like, you know, I think of the Old Testament and the mom who's just desperate to have a kid. Desperate to have a kid. Desperate to have a kid. And prayed and was always at the temple and just in that. That faithful surrender in the midst of sorrow and in the midst of struggle. I think there's something beautiful to that. And we need to learn to embrace. Embrace that as a church again and as followers of Christ because we live in such an instant gratification that we forget that, man, God does some amazing pruning in our own hearts. And our own lives in that long, faithful suffering. [00:20:42] Speaker B: Yeah. No. And I think there's something good about that. And the idea that there comes a point in everything that we do that it seems like it's an itch that you can't scratch, and it has nothing to do with your identity. It's just, I need to do this right. [00:20:54] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:20:54] Speaker B: Because there's nothing else in me that I want to do like that God hasn't equipped me for anything else. And I just can't. I get this, like, tunnel vision. So I get what you mean when you're like, I just had to do it. And it wasn't just, I'm trying to. Because there comes a point when you're not. You're not making any money and there's nothing to it. You're like, this isn't my identity anymore. Like, this just sucks. But I can't do anything else. [00:21:14] Speaker C: Right. [00:21:15] Speaker B: It's kind of what it seems like God brings you to, you know. You know, I'm saying, oh, 100%. [00:21:19] Speaker A: And it was one of those. But I. But the crazy thing is, so. Without the 15 years in ministry, like, because, you know, I thought when I left Nashville, okay, well, I'm killing that dream. But I really believe God was like, no, you're just not ready for that dream yet. And if I hadn't had 15 years in the church, because I feel like Nashville is a town where anybody can get the door open once, But Nashville's a first impression town. And, man, if you can't. If you can't keep the door open, that can almost be even worse. [00:21:49] Speaker C: Yep. [00:21:50] Speaker A: And so I feel like I just had 15 years of being in people's stories. Like, just hanging out with. Had some people at my church in Buffalo that were absolute legends. Like, there was a. There's a group of old guys that used to come up. Three of them were brothers. And I talk about them all the time because I still. But they. These guys had all been rough, rough before they were believers. Were in. I don't think they were in an official biker gang, but they were living biker lifestyles. [00:22:13] Speaker C: Yep. [00:22:15] Speaker A: They became believers. The fact these. These guys would drive an hour to work on the landscaping crew at our church for free. And they couldn't believe they got to do it. [00:22:24] Speaker B: Wow. [00:22:25] Speaker A: Just being in people's stories like that, it's like, I, you know, I can't. I wouldn't ever trade 15 years of that to become a songwriter down the road. Because it's just all these people, you go, like, this is what it's about, like, just being, you know, knowing these people, knowing their stories, and then maybe getting a chance to maybe turn that into something that they can take with them, which I, you know, kind of feel like that's what songs are a lot of the time. [00:22:50] Speaker C: So what. What is your. I'm always fascinated with the creative process. What is your songwriting process? Because it's that mix between finding a muse. Right. Something that inspires you, but then just the hard, faithful work. [00:23:04] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:23:05] Speaker C: You know, of. Of doing it all the time. What. What's your process? Like? [00:23:10] Speaker A: It's definitely, you know, you keep showing up. But it's funny because a lot of the process. Because now, you know, it's now, like, I'll walk into a. Right, and it's me and usually the artist, usually a producer, and they're. What's crazy is these producers are literally building the track as we're writing. So, like, by the end of three hours, you have something that's not far from what you hear on the radio. But we're just. We're doing this. What we're doing right now, we're talking about. We're just kind of, hey, man, what are you thinking? Or, you know, with it. With, you know, or, hey, lady. But if it's, you know, with. With. With a man, a woman, whoever, we're just talking because, you know, I always try to come in with an idea or something that. But most the time I threw out. I'll throw out an idea that I think is the greatest thing in the world. And I mean, it will fall. It'll be like dumpster fire fall flat. Nobody cares. But I. Always. Something. But. Well, it's. Somebody will say something in the conversation where you're like, whoa. Like. And I use the term shiny because I am. I'm medicated add. So it's like, for me, if something grabbed that. But it's also our songwriting because somebody will say something, and it's like it lights up in highlighter, and I can't, like. I'm like, hold on. Sorry to interrupt you, but. [00:24:24] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:24] Speaker A: Ever said that before in a song? And so from there, we just try to. We try to chase that down and get it into a form of something that feels like a song. [00:24:34] Speaker B: A lot of inspiration in that. Well, you know, it's. [00:24:37] Speaker C: It. [00:24:37] Speaker B: As you're talking, I think there's a lot of people, obviously, that want to be songwriters, that want to be singers. What would you say to them? I mean, it was more than you getting a connection, obviously. Like you said, it's Something about getting the door open once but then keeping the door open. What would you say to that person who's like, five, six years into it and is like, I just. I want to do this, but I just am wrestling with myself. What kind of encouragement would you. Would you give them right now? [00:25:01] Speaker A: This is not what anybody wants to hear, but, like, there's. There. You have to bloom where you're planted, and it doesn't hurt, you know, like, I'm not going to Nashville. So, yes, I was still sending things to Nashville, but I was. I truly was in a place of, like, I'm getting to play these songs for people here, and I can't tell you how many times I played songs for our church that I wrote that. Like, they thought they were amazing, and now I'm like, oh, that was not a good song. So it's like finding a group of people that you can just play your songs for. Because, like, I feel like as a songwriter more than anything, like, I just want to play my songs for people. I want. I want people to. You know, it's like, I don't think there's anything wrong because sometimes people with worship leaders and with songwriters are like, oh, it's vain to want to be on the stage. And, like, I just disagree. Like, it's not so much about, I want to be on stage. I just want to write songs and then watch it do something for somebody. And I feel like a lot of. A lot of performers and artists, you know, they're always. You know, especially in our church world, they're told, well, you should. You shouldn't desire that. And I'm like, yeah, there's parts of that you shouldn't desire, but you're also. You know, it's like the same way that a pastor has this thing burning in his heart, and it's. He wants to share it with people. I feel like musicians and artists, we're the same way. [00:26:18] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:26:18] Speaker A: And we want to see. We just want to move something. We want to change something for somebody with. With something that, you know, we got to be a part of writing. [00:26:25] Speaker C: So how would you. So let's say, guys listening. And he doesn't want to be a songwriter, but there's something that God has put on his heart, and he. He's still trying to figure out exactly what that is. Right. Like you said, being on stage, I could take it, I could leave it, but writing songs, I got to do. [00:26:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:26:42] Speaker C: Being a preacher, being in front of the spotlight, being in front of a crowd of 10,000, I could take or leave. But sharing whatever God's put on my heart to someone is there for sure. How would you encourage, let's say you're having coffee with a guy. How would you encourage a guy to really mind that and really sit with God and discover what that is and then be able to orient his life in such a way that he continues to let God refine that in his heart and in his soul to become useful tool for him in his kingdom? [00:27:11] Speaker A: It's funny because I think there's like a lot of people make it an either or, a both and. Or in either or. That's really, I think is a both. And so you get. You have the case of. Because where I'm going with this is so. So God speaks to Moses. And God calls Moses to do something that Moses thinks he's terrible at, Right? [00:27:29] Speaker B: Yes. [00:27:30] Speaker A: You know, you want me to speak. [00:27:33] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:34] Speaker A: Not making fun of you. Of a stutter, but I'm. [00:27:36] Speaker B: What I'm saying you're good. [00:27:37] Speaker A: Literally, like, that's his. That's his thing where he's like, there's no way. See that you have that moment where God tells you to do something and you're like, I'm awful at this. And God's like, yeah, but that's where I'm gonna. That's where people are gonna know that I'm in it. But then also, I think sometimes it's like there's things, you know, I remember I've been through all kinds of counseling, so I'm like almost been through enough counseling to be a counselor. We can get into that. [00:28:05] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:28:06] Speaker A: But, you know, grew up thinking that if I want to do something that can't be God's will. And that is. That's not good. Like, it's just. That's not true. Like God, it's like the deepest desires. Again, delight yourself in the Lord who give you desires your heart. There's. I remember, just a quick story. I remember I was. While I was in Buffalo, my wife and I would go over and we'd help out a senior adult home. And at this time, I was just kind of praying and open to what God wanted to do. And so we're hanging out with a bunch of senior adults. And, you know, so I was always like, well, I'm going to go be a blessing. Which is most of the time I was on the receiving end of the blessing. I was not a blessing to anybody. But I remember we wanted one of the days. I was like, hey, just tell me what, what did you want to Be when you were. What did you want to do with your life when you were little? And I distinctly remember this older guy who was real. You know, I'll edit some of his language because he was true Buffalonian. But he basically said, I've known Since I was 8 years old, I wanted to be on in radio. And he said, regardless of whether I starved or whether I had plenty, I never regretted a day that I did it his whole career. And I just felt like God lit me up with that. And God said, there's some things I've put in your heart that you've known you wanted to do since you were a kid. I put that there. And there's nothing wrong with chasing it when it's time. You know, it's like, we gotta give us the what, and then it's. Sometimes we don't get the how or the when for a long time. [00:29:30] Speaker B: Yeah, Yeah. I love that you're saying that because we talk a lot about that here, too. It's this idea that, man, we automatically shut down because you hear some people say, well, God, no, no. Delight yourself, Lord, and he will give you the desires of your heart. And I'm like, as in, like, nothing in you is of him. And I'm like, time out, time out. Like, God's gifted us and geared us and equipped us in a way that he's not equipped anybody else. We are fearfully and wonderfully made, and we somehow reject that. To say that means I need to just do these specific lists of things that God has for me. Yes. But we hand him our dreams and go refine it. Refine it. [00:30:03] Speaker C: Right. [00:30:03] Speaker B: I think that's what you're talking about is like, here's all my stuff. Can you figure this out, God? Because I don't know how to do it. But it doesn't mean that all that is bad. Right. Like, you know, we talked about before, the world was created with one no, and everything else was a yes, don't eat that fruit. But can we. Yep. Go do that. But. Yep, you can do that. Just don't eat that fruit and you're good. Yeah. And it still exists with this. No is being. Don't sin. Everything else is a yes, but we've. We've like, limited ourselves. So I love that you're saying this and sharing that, because you're right. There's some people that just have already governed it in their own hearts Right. Before they allow God to really clearly define who he's created them to be. Yeah, I love that. [00:30:39] Speaker A: That's some of that comes from, like. I mean, a lot of my story. We can. We can get into it whenever. But my. The short version of my story is that I felt like God loved me because you have to love your kids, but he didn't necessarily like me. And so I just assumed that, man, if I ask God what I should do with my life. And what's funny, though, is even when, you know, I presented my two nevers to God, which were seminary and which were being a worship pastor. But what's funny is. But that was one. Then maybe that was my weird Moses thing. But, like, I never. Like, I've never been so fulfilled in doing those two things. [00:31:17] Speaker C: Hmm. [00:31:18] Speaker A: You know, I remember just being in seminary and going, actually, I'm kind of. I kind of like this. I was. I was the guy in the back of the class, and. And what I found was this is. This is not a shot of people at seminary, but the guys at the back of the class who were cutting up and were a little bit of goofballs, but they all did really well in ministry. And there's a lot of guys that sat at the front of the classroom, like, you should not ever be around forever. [00:31:43] Speaker C: Preaching the gospel right there. And you're preaching to the choir. [00:31:46] Speaker B: Yeah, you're preaching a choir. Because, again, it's. It's that idea that, like, we got to make this applicable, and it's got to reach people, and people matter, and so. No, I love it. I love it, man, we got to have you on again, because I want to hear more of your story. I know it's been. This guy is, like, one of the hardest guys to get ahold of and. And actually lock down because he's so busy. Yeah, you know, he's. He's. Yeah, he's all over the place. [00:32:07] Speaker C: So good, though. [00:32:07] Speaker B: Well, man, what. What is next for you? What's going on in your journey next. [00:32:12] Speaker A: Right now, I'm just. It's like every time I have a midlife crisis, probably every two weeks, and so I'm asking God that question. But right now, it's just like, every time I ask that question, I feel like there's some, you know, just enough of an affirmation to go, like, I'll let you know when you need an. No, for now, keep. Keep doing what you're doing. [00:32:30] Speaker B: Be faithful, be faithful, line upon line. That's awesome. That's awesome. Dude, it's so good having you on, man. We really want to get. I want to get you back on to share your. To share your Whole story. Because when we talked before we. We had a coffee and, you know, when we were in Nashville and just hearing a story, I'm like, I got to get that part on as well. And we will talk about that too, because I think today we're really leaning into this. Your dream, your desire, and what you want to do. Yeah. Just be faithful and then God will show up. And so, yeah, I mean, that's so good. But, dude, any final thoughts before we jump into our fast five? [00:33:02] Speaker A: I'm all out of thoughts. Which is rare. [00:33:05] Speaker C: That is rare. I'm all out of thoughts. [00:33:08] Speaker A: I mean, at least. [00:33:13] Speaker B: Good, good thoughts. Travis is singing Sorry, Sorry. Who was that? [00:33:19] Speaker C: I'm all out of love. Air Supply. [00:33:20] Speaker B: That's what it was. [00:33:23] Speaker C: Interesting. That was the first concert. Not proud of this. That was the first concert I ever went to. Was Air Supply. [00:33:28] Speaker B: Air Supply. [00:33:29] Speaker C: Air Supply, yeah. Wow. Not be proud of that dude's Air Supply, man. I think I lost all my testosterone at that moment. We. [00:33:37] Speaker B: We had a conversation about low T last week, and so we'll. We'll re reissue that one later on. [00:33:43] Speaker C: So what was your first concert? Real quick, before we go into the first five. First concert. [00:33:48] Speaker B: Oh, I don't even remember, man. [00:33:49] Speaker C: Kyle, first concert. [00:33:50] Speaker D: Oh, very similar to Air Supply was Kiss. [00:33:55] Speaker C: That's a complete opposite of Air Supply. Benji, what was yours? [00:33:59] Speaker A: I'm gonna totally burn my man card, but I'm pretty sure it was Sandy Patty because my dad was involved in the industry early on. I will say though, she put on a great concert. [00:34:07] Speaker C: Oh, yeah. I mean, back in the day in the Christian world, that was. That was Apex, man. She was. She was everything. [00:34:12] Speaker B: I think mine was the Beach Boys. [00:34:15] Speaker A: Come on. [00:34:15] Speaker D: Wow. [00:34:16] Speaker B: The Beach Boys. I'm serious. The Beach Boys. [00:34:17] Speaker C: Really? [00:34:18] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. My mom worked. [00:34:19] Speaker D: Was it a wet and wild or. [00:34:21] Speaker B: No, no, no. She. My mom like, like, volunteered to do like the tickets and stuff like that, so she got to bring me for free. And. Yeah, I mean, it was all the Beach Boy. I mean, they were even then 20, no, 30 years ago. They were in Walker. [00:34:35] Speaker D: They were the beach geriatrics. [00:34:37] Speaker C: Do you see now why I apologize for Air Supply? I mean, here we have Kiss, we have Sandy Patty, we have of the Beach Boys. And I'm like, we're all out of life. [00:34:45] Speaker B: I'm so lost without you. [00:34:47] Speaker C: Forget it. [00:34:48] Speaker B: That was really good. [00:34:48] Speaker C: Stop. [00:34:49] Speaker A: That was the 80s. Like, that was. I mean, like, easy listening. [00:34:54] Speaker C: KTL. [00:34:54] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:34:55] Speaker A: Like, yeah, it's like that. That wasn't necessarily not masculine. So I don't. I Think you have to go with that one. [00:35:00] Speaker B: I know, right? The girls flock to it. [00:35:02] Speaker C: All right. [00:35:03] Speaker B: Okay, we'll move on. Which now leads us into our fast, fast five. [00:35:08] Speaker A: Let's go. [00:35:10] Speaker B: Awesome. Who do you most admire and why? [00:35:13] Speaker A: Holy smokes, man. That's a great. That. That's. I don't have an immediate answer. I mean, like, I could give you, like, and this would be a true answer, but I think. You know what I actually admire. I think about this a lot, and this sounds. But I admire one of the people that I think about a lot as far as finishing. Well, I think about Billy Graham, and it's because. Yeah, not so much of his. His evangelism, obviously, but I love the fact that when he passed away, you. There was no dirt on him. [00:35:47] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah. [00:35:48] Speaker C: Yep. [00:35:48] Speaker B: Yes. [00:35:49] Speaker A: And I think his legacy might even be more that than evangelism. [00:35:52] Speaker B: Bro, we talk about that all the time, too. We talk about the fact that. That the guys who should be standing in front of conferences are the ones who have, hey, this is Charlie. He pastored a church for 35 years. Zero scandals, right? Like, that should be it. And then it shouldn't. I mean, I'm not against the growth and stuff, but there's something valuable about a man who honors his family and the Lord his whole life. [00:36:13] Speaker C: Faithful. I mean, that's the word through. This whole thing is just faithful. Faithful, yeah. [00:36:17] Speaker B: Just be faithful. I love it. [00:36:18] Speaker C: Faithful, man. [00:36:19] Speaker B: I love it. Okay, so where would you like to go on vacation with your family? Not just you. In Thailand on a school or. No, I'm just kidding. Where'd you like to go on a vacation? [00:36:29] Speaker A: I've always. I actually want to go. We have. We just haven't done yet. I would love. Because my wife is from her. Her family. Not. She's not. She's. She's born here in the States, but her grandmother was, like. Came over on the boat from Italy. [00:36:41] Speaker B: Oh, wow. [00:36:42] Speaker A: And so I would love to take our whole family and just go. I've just never done the whole. Explore Italy, you know, England like that. So I kind of do that. Kind of a history nerd. [00:36:54] Speaker C: I'm getting history out there. A lot of people answer that question with Italy. [00:36:58] Speaker B: It's a good question. [00:37:00] Speaker C: I think it's the food, it's the wine. It's all of it. [00:37:02] Speaker B: Yes, it is. All good. All good. Awesome. What are you currently reading right now? Bible or another book. [00:37:09] Speaker A: What am I reading? I'm always juggling, like, about five different books, and that's more of my brain trying to Think reading the Bible I'm doing. We are doing our, you know, our churches, they at least try to break it up into the two year read the Bible and two years plan. And for me, translate. Read the Bible in about five years. [00:37:29] Speaker B: Yep, yep. [00:37:30] Speaker A: Tells you about my consistency. But then beyond that, like I'm always reading, I'm always juggling because before I go to sleep, I usually read a spy novel. So like all this stuff from Jack Carr, terminal list. Yeah, those type of stuff. I'm a big military nerd. [00:37:47] Speaker B: Nice. [00:37:48] Speaker A: And then the theology wise, like a lot of times I'm reading like, I just spurred, but I'm always reading just little bits and pieces of. Because Spurgeon's got all his sermons that you get them for free. And man, I just like the way some of the. I just, you know, I heard that used to mentor our church staff. He said, I only read the dead guys and some of it was because of their legacies. Like, I just want to make sure they finish well if I'm gonna. Spent a lot of time reading them. [00:38:10] Speaker B: Dude. [00:38:10] Speaker C: Brilliant. [00:38:11] Speaker B: That's a good. It's a good indicator kind of some. [00:38:14] Speaker A: Of the places right now. [00:38:15] Speaker B: Nice, nice. What is a goal you have for this year? [00:38:23] Speaker A: So just to preface this, I was the guy in staff meeting that if the pastor asked me for a five year plan, I'd literally go crawl in the corner and fetal position and suck my thumb. [00:38:33] Speaker C: I feel like we're spirit children. [00:38:34] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:38:35] Speaker C: We're the same person. [00:38:37] Speaker A: I could grow in that area probably right now I'm honestly like, here's one goal is I'm like, I'm starting to write, writing some country and because I just. I feel like I'm a lyricist mostly and I'm like, country writers are the best lyric writers in the world. So. Yep, part of me is like, I definitely want. One of my goals is to start getting more in that world, even if it's nothing else, but to cross train. Because I feel like. Because one of my little secret agendas in Christian music is I'm like, if we can't write our lyrics as good as country, they don't have to be country lyrics. But if they're not that good, I don't want to do it. Like, what's the point? [00:39:11] Speaker C: Love it. Side question. Who's someone in the country world right now? Whether it be Texas, Red Dirt or even Nashville country that you're like, that dude is a legit songwriter and I really like listening to what he puts down. Or she. [00:39:27] Speaker A: Actually. I mean, this is More of an artist thing. I love Cody John. [00:39:30] Speaker C: Yes. [00:39:31] Speaker A: Zach Top. I saw him in concert and, like, you know, I knew. Fun story about him is about a year before he blew up, I was playing a golf course here in Spring Hill, and I got partnered up with this young kid, great golfer, by the way. And so we just. This is all before he. And so I'm like, what do you do for a living? And he's like, man, I'm a country artist. It was. I was playing golf with Zach Topp. [00:39:54] Speaker C: Shut up. [00:39:56] Speaker A: Then, like, literally, not. He kind of. I looked him up on Spotify, and my wife and I, like, we mostly. If we go, if we're gonna pay for a concert, most of the time, it's probably gonna be a country. Country artist, right? And so I just. Before I just center his stuff, I was like, you gotta listen to him. Like, maybe I know nothing about music, but I think he's gonna be a big deal. And then a year later, like, so then we went see him in concert, and he. You know, I'm expecting when his band shows up, there's gonna be a lead guitar player, right? He's the guitar player. And, dude. Wow. He's. He's gonna be around, along. I think he's gonna have the same legacy as Vince Gill. He's gonna have the same legacy as, like, he'll be like a, you know, one of the standards. He's just a dude's unreal. Unreal life. Sorry, I've got, like, the old man indigestion burp coming up. [00:40:42] Speaker C: Well, and I feel like Ezra burping. I feel like, dude, I agree with you. Zach Top. He's first off, he's tapped into the. The 90s, which is fantastic. Country. Second. Every time I see him, he genuinely looks like he's having a great time. Like, he's just a kid in a candy store. And he's just having a absolute great time doing what God called him to do. That's cool. That's cool. [00:41:02] Speaker B: Love it. Love it. So, number five, what's the most impactful piece of advice you've ever been given? [00:41:11] Speaker A: Don't suck now. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Good one. Good. Well, hey, thanks for listening today. [00:41:20] Speaker A: I really do. I think it comes back to, here's this. It sounds funny, but this is kind of something God taught me. And I don't know, I just. I came to a point where I realized, if you're really after the will of God, he's not gonna let you miss it. [00:41:37] Speaker C: Mmm. [00:41:38] Speaker B: That's good. That's good. That's Good, man. I love it. That was a good mic drop. I love that we have mic drops on here almost every single week, so it's so good. But, man, it's been great having you on here. Thank you so much for being a part of this and, yeah, for our studio audience. Thank you. Wait one more second. [00:41:57] Speaker A: Can I get that sound bite? Like, as a songwriter, we never get to hear that, and I need that to feed my ego. [00:42:03] Speaker B: Exactly. [00:42:03] Speaker C: We're there. [00:42:04] Speaker B: We're there. [00:42:04] Speaker C: You mean your wife and kids don't do that for you on a regular basis? You wake up in the morning like, father is awake. [00:42:10] Speaker B: Father's awake. [00:42:11] Speaker C: Yay. [00:42:13] Speaker A: Yeah, no, we keep it very real in my house. [00:42:17] Speaker C: That's awesome. [00:42:18] Speaker B: Oh, man, this has been great. I'm so glad we finally got you on here, man. We are going to have you on again because I want to hear, like, childhood story thing like that of where how God has used that in your songwriting and in. In your journey to make those decisions and moving up to be a worship leader, things like that. I would love to hear more about that. But, man, we are so grateful to have you on today. [00:42:35] Speaker C: Absolutely. [00:42:35] Speaker B: Thank you guys so much. [00:42:36] Speaker A: Great, guys. [00:42:37] Speaker B: Oh, we. We love having you, man. So we'll. And you're stuck with us now, just so you know. So we. [00:42:43] Speaker A: We expect Air Supply. And I was like, all right, I'm. [00:42:45] Speaker B: With my people, so you're with my people. Exactly. [00:42:49] Speaker C: Your patronization is appreciated. [00:42:51] Speaker B: He said dumb and dumber. So we're good. Like, you know, very much. We need to. Yeah, we need to have these conversations. But, man, it was good to have you on. Thank you so much for. If you're out there and you want to connect with Benji, how do. How do we connect? How can they connect with you, my friend? [00:43:05] Speaker A: Probably best ways. I'm on. I'm on Instagram, Benji Coward, and Facebook. And I'll apologize ahead of time for what. What. What you may or may not see there. [00:43:13] Speaker B: But, dude, your stuff is awesome. I laugh every time. I think I send you the little laughing emoji. They are just hilarious. He does all the reels and the. The memes are. They're incredible. [00:43:22] Speaker C: So awesome. [00:43:23] Speaker B: You want to follow Benji? We'll. We'll put his stuff. His info down at the bottom as well. You can check him out. But, man, thank you again for being on here. Thank you guys for listening, checking it out. I hope you guys found some great stuff out of it. Keep pursuing those dreams as always. [00:43:37] Speaker C: Yeah, as always. Infonownlegacy.org if you got any questions, comments or concerns and follow us like us and share us. That'd be great. [00:43:45] Speaker B: Thanks a lot guys. Thanks for listening. Have a great week. [00:43:48] Speaker C: God bless. [00:43:49] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy Podcast. We'd love to hear from you. So email us your questions or comments to info no Legacy.