Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast, brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: You ever had one of those mornings where, like, everything hurts?
[00:00:19] Speaker C: I feel like this is an REM song about to start.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Every muscle hurts.
That's as much as I can do.
[00:00:29] Speaker C: You have your pillows positioned?
[00:00:31] Speaker B: So what we did, we stopped working out for like a week.
[00:00:34] Speaker C: Congratulations.
[00:00:35] Speaker B: A week. Not like a month. A week. And we were doing like three to four times a week kind of thing.
And we got back into it and like, my earlobes hurt today.
[00:00:44] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: I don't know how. I mean, I did a bunch of abs and my earlobes hurt, so I don't know. Good morning, man. It's good to see you. Good to see you guys.
[00:00:50] Speaker C: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to Known Legacy. We're glad you guys are here today. As always, you can check us out on YouTube, you can follow us on Facebook, Instagram. There's some great posts out there. If you want to leave a review, we'd appreciate that. Five stars is always really appreciated, but be honest, that's what we long for. And, man, if you have any questions, comments or concerns, info legacy.org you can find out information about Bill and his book on infolegacy.org as well. And as always, we are here to help. Guys, wake up, gear up and come alive. And today's conversation is going to be fantastic.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Yes, it is.
[00:01:23] Speaker C: Before we get there. Okay, here's the question today.
[00:01:27] Speaker B: Question of the day.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: One more time.
[00:01:31] Speaker B: Question of the day.
Copyright copyright known legacy 2005, 2025.
[00:01:38] Speaker C: 2025.
You know this is September 11th.
[00:01:43] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, we're recording on September 11th right now.
[00:01:46] Speaker C: Lots of emotions from 2021 as well as the events of yesterday.
And I don't know when this is going to drop, but I've been very reflective over the last few days. And so this is my question for us, okay?
Who was a peer of yours? Not an adult, not a mentor, something like that, but who is a peer of yours, okay, that influenced your faith the most?
Who is a peer of yours that influenced your faith? Well, I'll give that you guys some time. So I've had some time to think about it. Well, I went to.
Went to a creative and performing arts school for junior high. And so after that fun adventure, we went to, I went to Rockford Lutheran High School. And it's small, private high school. And freshman year I'm there. And for some reason a junior in the school, his name was Brian Dunn. He was kind of the contrarian of the school. He always knew exactly what the rules were, and he went right up to the edge of the rule. Like, he would cut his hair every day just so it would hit his collar just enough and it wouldn't cover the collar, so everyone knew he had too long of hair, but just, you know, and he'd stretch his neck. So he was just that kind of guy. For whatever reason, he took it upon himself to influence my faith in powerful ways. And remember, he'd always say, hey, Travis, a lot of people are lukewarm in their faith. And God has not called us to be lukewarm in our faith. He's called us to be hot or cold. Like, either jettison it, don't do it, or be all in. And, you know, as a freshman, sophomore year in high school, that was such an important thing. And then not knowing God was preparing me for a move to San Diego, California, right before my junior year. I look back and realize it's because of those conversations with Brian. It's because of the Friday nights, hanging out, just talking. It's because of those challenges to my faith. He was very. He came from an Assemblies of God. He was very charismatic. I was Lutheran, so I was very conservative.
And it was a lot of who I am today and my view on things and my ability to approach Lutheran. Many different expressions of Christ crucified throughout our culture, I think harkens back to those conversations.
[00:03:54] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:03:55] Speaker C: Brian Dunn, man, if you're listening. Love you, brother. And I still hate the fact that we weren't able to connect in Florida this past year.
[00:04:03] Speaker B: You know, for me, there were a lot of guys, but as you said it, two pivotal people jumped out at me. So sorry, I'm going to say two, but it's okay.
[00:04:11] Speaker C: We can, you know, it's our show. We can make up the rules.
[00:04:13] Speaker B: I need a lot of help. So I like the rules. Not just one person. I'm not as teachable, so, I mean, it takes more people to. To. To get me. But I would tell you, the first one was when my brother came back from Chicago and he was at a church there, and, man, he was on fire for the Lord. And I was like, I want that. I want that. Yeah. So that really set me off in high school when I was like, oh, there's more than this. Like, try to not sin. That's really where a lot of the stars like, oh, I'll try to do better next week. He's like, no, he really showed me why you can do so much more. And then another buddy of mine, Scott Fisher, who, when I was in ministry at our church in. With Duke's church in upstate New York, we would have so many conversations about just life and like, practically applying the scriptures, you know, of just like, hey, what do you think about this? But not like, what do you think because of what it says, like, what do you think about how you're applying this truth in your life? And so, yeah, so those two guys definitely made an impact. So thanks, Chris. Thanks, Scott.
[00:05:12] Speaker C: Yeah, nice, nice.
[00:05:14] Speaker B: Scott was truly a Fisher of men. His last name was Fisher. So, you know, stop. Yeah, that's pretty good.
[00:05:19] Speaker C: So, Kyle, how about you? Producer Kyle?
[00:05:22] Speaker D: It's gonna be my friend James Morrison. Not the Jim Morrison, but his name was James Morrison.
And still in contact from the day whenever he lives down Georgetown.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: So he was the door that helped you.
[00:05:35] Speaker D: Yeah, he.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: You caught that.
Anybody over 60 is like, I get it, I get it.
[00:05:40] Speaker C: All right, keep going.
[00:05:41] Speaker D: So I grew up in church from a baby on up. But when I started going to Grapevine Middle school and high school, he was part of my youth group. And he was the guy that would come to high school with this Bible.
And I'm like, people are gonna make fun of you.
He was the one that sort of set that example of, hey, you gotta. You gotta almost like your friend Travis. You gotta be who you are. So, yeah, and like I said, we're still in touch. I see him a lot.
[00:06:12] Speaker C: That's fantastic.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: That's awesome. Well, I'm excited to hear this question from our guest today who is Vernon Berger, who is the founder of his Voice Global.
And we are so glad to have him on, man. You know, watching his journey for years, getting that little bit of moment in Midland when we were together and then poof, gone. A lot of respect for him and what he's done. I would love to know who influenced you in your. That was a peer right, in your life.
[00:06:38] Speaker A: Yeah, I'd say my best friend, Justin Kitchens.
[00:06:41] Speaker B: Okay. I know Justin.
[00:06:42] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Been friends for over 20 years. And he and I are about as opposite as they come as far as personality wise, things like that.
But he's just always been a super faithful person.
But he'll also ask me challenging things, call me on some things and stuff like that. But it's for him, he's helped to paint a picture of. To echo kind of back to what you had said, Bill, of basically getting away from this whole idea of like a gospel of something. Sin management.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:07:27] Speaker A: Really, the good news is predominantly about indulging in the fullness of the kingdom. And, yeah, it's like, don't sin. I get that. But it's probably about 7% of this whole deal.
You know, it's much more. How are we going to live generative, creative lives in the kingdom? And so, yeah, him. And again, just because he's. He's been there through the highest highs and the lowest lows. So.
[00:07:56] Speaker B: Wow. That's awesome.
[00:07:57] Speaker C: That's fantastic.
[00:07:58] Speaker B: That's cool. That's cool. Well, man, as we get started, I would love our listeners and viewers to hear some of your stories. So share some of your stories. I know what you're doing now, you know, in, you know, in pieces, as I follow you guys, of the impact in, you know, overseas and what you do here. Can you share kind of the. Start your journey, you know, your story?
[00:08:17] Speaker A: Yeah. So for me, I wasn't raised in Christianity. I came to know Jesus when I was 19, but born and raised in St. Louis and stuff.
Profoundly abusive home in every sense of that word.
And it was just growing up was brutal.
And a lot of the abuse came from my mom, which also has its other sets of issues. Being a man.
[00:08:49] Speaker C: Right, right.
[00:08:51] Speaker A: And so really working through a lot of those things, got involved in everything under the sun in high school. You know, people's imagination can go wherever. And unfortunately, I probably outreach the imagination.
But my sister, who's 17 months older than me, she went off to University of Missouri in Columbia and she ended up becoming a Christian her freshman year.
She got involved with a really small group, but very faithful group of folks. And side note, she went off into her dorm room because somebody had given her a New Testament. She just read the Scriptures and the Lord saved her.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: I love those. I love when those.
[00:09:41] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. It wasn't with somebody else or anything like that. And so she gets involved with this group and she tells them about me. And by. By that time, I was still in St. Louis making money through illegal means and things like that. And she came.
[00:10:01] Speaker C: Yeah, well played, sir. Well played. Well played.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. Welcome. So they prayed and fasted, and she came back and told me about Jesus one weekend. And it's not that there aren't amazing Christians and churches and things like that in St. Louis. I just wasn't around it. It just wasn't what I was surrounded by.
And so she tells me about Jesus, and I'll never forget my first words out of my mouth was, what the hell are you talking about?
Yeah, and because literally, I'm not trying to drop bombs on your pod.
[00:10:36] Speaker B: No, no, no, you're, it's, you're all good, man. You're good.
[00:10:39] Speaker A: Oh, welcome. Good, good. So then I won't apologize for any.
But she just looks at me and. Because she was really the one that raised me as well. So I'd come home drunk, high, all these other things in, in high school, and she'd wait up and she'd just take. Tell me, hey, I was just waiting up for you, just making sure you're okay. And she'd go to bed and that. That was it.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: But after I, I had said that to her, she goes, all I'm telling you is this is the truth. And she gave me a hug and things like that and left it at that. Well, two weeks later, I became a Christian. And that first day.
So my mom, who eventually transitioned to heaven because she was addicted to prescription drugs all of my life and ended up dying from complications of addiction.
And so she.
I call her and I said, you know, I became a Christian and stuff. And she had some expletives to express to me as well about that, but then she just says, you know, there's a guy in my AA group that he says that he's a Christian. And she gives me his name and number. And I'm like, hey, isn't this thing anonymous? I don't think you should be doing that business.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Alcoholics almost anonymous.
[00:12:16] Speaker A: That's right. We almost made it. So anyways, I call them.
I call. This guy's name's Jeff Phillips.
Ironically, he's a simple carpenter.
And I do use the term simple carpenter with very tongue in cheek. So I call him and tell him who I am, and hey, I just became a Christian. The only thing he says is like, come on over, you know, and stuff like that. So I go over to his house and this guy from day one holistically disciples me. I mean, brings me under his wing. He gets me a job working In a foundry 10 hours a day, six days a week, pouring 1800 degree metal in front of 2700 degree ovens, you know, having a super hard job, but.
But a noble job.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: And there's a refining process in that hard job, isn't there?
[00:13:12] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, super refining. And I mean, part of the other brilliance of him, he was detoxing my body from all of the.
[00:13:19] Speaker B: It kept you so, so busy.
[00:13:21] Speaker A: Yeah, and.
But my point is that, like, he had such a full view of the kingdom, so he taught me. He would always say, Jesus has everything to do with everything.
And so he would disciple me with, how do you even have a budget? How do you put yourself through school? How do you. I mean, every little thing. He helped pick up a college for me, all of these things, you know, So I would just work 10 hours a day. I'd come home, put on a pot of coffee, read the scripture, or go over to his house, you know, and this kind of started a pattern for me. And so pretty quickly, I felt like the Lord was. Because the other thing that he always did was he had me read biographies and stories of the persecuted church. Like, literally, first week. Yeah, first week.
[00:14:22] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah.
Well.
[00:14:24] Speaker C: And the brilliance of that. And the brilliance of that is this, that it shatters the illusion that when I follow Christ, everything's going to get easy.
[00:14:31] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. And that would have been a very.
[00:14:33] Speaker C: Easy lie to buy into because your life had been so hard. At this point, you finally get this. This taste of goodness. You get this taste of truth. And the lie of the North American church in a lot of ways is like, hey, come now. Sit in a comfortable chair in the nice, comfortable auditorium, and we will provide for you all of this thing. So the fact that he smacks you in the face right away saying, hey, this could cost you your life.
[00:14:55] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:14:56] Speaker C: Like, it's brilliant move. It's a brilliant move.
[00:14:59] Speaker B: No, that's true. It's awesome.
[00:15:02] Speaker A: The wild alto quicks story there. So I'm three days into being a Christian, and he walks up to me and he hands me a book, and it's Through Gates of Splendor. It's about the martyrdom of Jim Elliott, 1956 in Ecuador.
[00:15:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:15:17] Speaker A: And the only thing he says to me is he hands me the book and he says, if you're not willing to make this sacrifice, you're not a Christian and draw some lines.
[00:15:27] Speaker B: That's good.
[00:15:29] Speaker A: Totally. But for me, like, I had. I literally had not read a book, so. Since sixth grade. Right. So I thought the sacrifice was. Read the book.
[00:15:39] Speaker C: This guy's like the UFC of evangelists.
[00:15:41] Speaker B: I know, right?
[00:15:42] Speaker A: Oh, totally.
[00:15:43] Speaker C: Enter the cage match, and if you survive, that's fantastic.
[00:15:47] Speaker A: And so he.
So I go and I read this book in three days. So I'm six days into being a Christian, and as I'm reading the book, I really sense the Lord says, you're going to do something in Africa.
And I'm like, what in the world? So I go and talk to him after six days, and I tell him I get ready to with my whole spiel. And he stops and puts his hand on my shoulder. And he says, hey, I want you to understand this.
It's not that you have to die to be a Christian, but until you're willing to die for something, you'll never live for it.
And so that just set me off at the very beginning, you know? And so. So I tell him, like, hey, man, this book is about Ecuador. But I feel like the Lord's telling me that I'm going to do something in Africa. And I literally, because I didn't know, like, what it meant to hear from God fully at that time or hear him consistently in prayer, I go, jeff, I like, I don't know if this is the bong resin or not. Like, I don't know if I'm hearing things. I don't know. And his simple answer was this, which was amazing, and I loved it. And it's. He's helped me out so much as he goes, we'll pray and God will tell us over time.
That's it.
[00:17:10] Speaker C: Amen.
[00:17:10] Speaker A: You didn't trivialize.
He'll tell us over time.
[00:17:14] Speaker C: Amen. Dude, this guy's amazing.
[00:17:18] Speaker B: Yeah, we need to get him on the podcast.
[00:17:21] Speaker A: He's amazing.
And so still making disciples like crazy.
[00:17:25] Speaker B: Oh, man. Dude.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: So anyways, that really launched me off into getting involved in Africa pretty quickly. I was six months after I became a Christian, I ended up in South Sudan, which was pretty fascinating.
And I had. I just cold called because they didn't have Google at the time. Right. So.
[00:17:45] Speaker C: Right.
[00:17:48] Speaker A: Because this is 25 years ago.
And so I just. Yahoo. You know, Christian organization Sudan. And Because South Sudan wasn't even a country then.
[00:17:59] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: But I've been reading about the Persecuted Church. Big in the Persecuted Church then was like the Nuba Mountains and all the persecution in Sudan. So I call this organization in California and reach out to them, because I saw that they were taking trips over there, and I just cold call him, and it's called Safe Harbor.
And the guy was like, yeah, I'm the one that's leading the trip. Would you.
Would you come over there with us and train pastors? And I was like, yeah, man, I got this. Let's do it.
[00:18:36] Speaker C: Six months in.
[00:18:37] Speaker A: I can train pastors six months in. And he goes, okay, I want you to teach out of first and second Timothy and Timothy Titus. I was like, awesome, dude, we got this. And I hang up and I have to go to the table of contents in my Bible.
[00:18:50] Speaker C: Yep.
[00:18:50] Speaker A: I'm like, where? What is first and second Timothy and Titus? Sure, we'll do it. So as kind of Providence would have that trip at the same place we were staying in what is now South Sudan. The eventual first president of South Sudan was there.
So I connected with him a lot and stuff. And so over the next couple years, I took trips with different folks. I always knew that I was going to start my own organization.
And so eventually we started what's called His Voice Global now, you know, and over the years, my big thing at the very beginning was coming alongside of orphans. And so we built up a huge orphan care network stuff. Now we've expanded quite a bit. And our main base is in northern Uganda, right on the Congo South Sudan border. We have an amazing team and our, our mission is raising up leaders among the vulnerable.
Our vision is to see relationships restored, communities renewed. So I actually think there's four relationships in the gospel that were meant to be reconciled to God, ourselves, others in the rest of creation.
And that shalom is the harmonization of all four relationships.
And so it's if relationships are restored, then every sphere of community, of the community will be renewed. Right?
And so that's really what we are after. And so for us, we've got like four programs. We've got our Arise program, which is an amazing retreat center that we not only use to equip people that are with us, but I'm huge in collaboration. So like other organizations use it. It's a very, very nice facility. They get to come get. If you want to think almost like breathing lungs, Arise would be our in breath. This is where you come to be restored. This is the place that you come to be equipped and things like that.
Then Shine would be kind of our out breath. Our other three programs, Shine, Thrive and Alive would be your out breath. But Shine is we come alongside of those in our area in northern Uganda, where almost all of them have some form of severe handicap.
And we have seven points of integration that we work through, you know, with them. Because the whole goal is how do we walk alongside you? And it's raising leaders among the vulnerable. How do you go and focus on the vulnerable, walk with them in a collaborative, interdependent way where they eventually become the leaders that turn around and find other vulnerable.
And so we've seen this happen over and over, even to a degree that like our Shine program. Because of the effectiveness of our team on the ground in our area, we got named as the number one NGO NGO out of 46 NGOs this last.
[00:22:01] Speaker B: Wow, that's awesome.
[00:22:02] Speaker A: And that was by the government and the people, so. So shout out to them for the Effectiveness of that. Our Thrive program is our education program where our orphans that we've been raising up for over 20 years, they come down typically to Uganda, some state in South Sudan, but they either go to Votech or university, you know, so we've had law school grads, engineers, med school, social workers, electricians, carpenters, all over the map. And because my whole aspect has been, I'll echo back to Jeff, discipleship is lifelong. And if we believe discipleship is lifelong, we believe it's eternal. If we believe it's eternal, then we walk with you for, for that amount of time.
So I don't as much do personally the age out aspect. I'm not trying to go off anybody that does. There's reasons other organizations do. I'm just saying that for us it's walking with these folks in whatever season they are and how do we train and equip them to become leaders among the vulnerable.
And so even an example would be like one of our orphans was the one that thought up of the SHINE program.
[00:23:21] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:23:22] Speaker A: So they're the ones that led that, you know, that's fantastic.
Our Alive program is our discipleship training program, you know, so.
And just in the process of all that, from the educational background, to kind of echo back to why Jeff has been important to me as well, is so my PhD is in biblical lament and poetry.
And so a lot of it has been through this lens of in coming to know Jesus, I was surrounded by a lot of really sweet and kind and great people. I'm not going off on it at all. And I think it's amazing and it's, it's needed.
But coming into a church atmosphere that their only answer to tragedy and grief in pain was Romans 8:28, which is a misappropriation of it. And number two is just keep praising, keep praising and so praise your way out of the situation basically.
And so that never sat well with me just because even in the scripture, like we never see one word of praise on the mouth of Jesus in the cross and yet he lived in perfect faith.
And it's really, really important because what that has allowed me to explore in the sense of lament and grief and poetry and stuff is going the way that I define faith is honest togetherness. That's it. It's are you honestly together with God?
So it's being able to use lament in grief language to connect with God, which is what is our ultimate end. Unfortunately, especially in the Western church, we've made praise the pinnacle of faith instead of Emmanuel.
And it's not a minor miss.
[00:25:28] Speaker B: Okay.
Yeah.
[00:25:30] Speaker A: It's being able to go, no, no, Emmanuel proper pronoun. God with us, he's the pinnacle of our faith.
And if I think that praise alone is the pinnacle of my faith, number one proposition.
And yet God is simply weeping with me in the middle of my hells, there's actually a real reality that if all I ever do is praise God in the middle of my hell, I'm denying God.
Why? Because God is not doing that.
He's crying with me.
So that's such a big deal for people in the middle of hell as well, because instead of trying to trivialize it to the point of good feelings, you're sitting there going, oh, yeah, guess what? I don't need to be one of Job's friends.
[00:26:23] Speaker B: So. So you kind of saying, like, if it.
In my simple mind, it kind of sounds like you're saying, looking at the Lord and going, this sucks. And him being like, yes, it does just that. Authenticity.
Yeah, I feel like you're right. There is that.
There's something interesting about that because we've talked about. We really value authenticity, even with what we do. Because so many guys are like, they put the facade on and they're not like, this, this is terrible. But God is still good. Like, but God is still good. And instead, I just need to almost like. It sounds like you're saying instead of dealing with it, you're almost like, deflecting it. No, no, I'm just going to act like it's not here, and I'm going to just make it, fake it till you make. And no, I like that. The reality.
[00:27:01] Speaker A: Can you.
[00:27:02] Speaker B: Am I saying that correctly? Does that make sense or is that okay? Sorry.
[00:27:06] Speaker A: It makes a ton of sense. And because I think that the.
The big aspect of it is being able to go.
I think that so many times we try to surgically cut down all of our packages, pains and hells to such a degree that somehow we think, if I can just write it out and type it out on a piece of paper and I can make sense of all of it, then all of a sudden everything's going to be good.
Well, it's not how life is. And so my bigger thing is going.
I've seen a lot of people, if you want to use the term deconstruction or things like that, which I. Because I'm also a spiritual director, so I walk with a lot of people in.
In a lot of difficult situations.
But I think that most of what most people are calling deconstruction Actually is just reinvention.
I don't think it's a deconstruction. I think they're reinventing, but they're also a lot of these folks. I'll use an example. I was talking with a gal that came over to our house and we were talking with her, and she's talking about all of these difficult things and. And stuff like that. And whenever I laid out this aspect of lament with her. And now the. The big thing with lament is that you don't, so to speak, rant and run.
It's this complain and sit.
Right. So I think that lament is complaint that finds its trust in God.
[00:28:39] Speaker B: That's okay.
[00:28:40] Speaker A: Biblical. That's what biblical lament is, at least.
And the reason why it's a big deal is going. This gal actually left our house going, oh, I actually do know God.
What I'm denying is the God that was told me in this place. And I go, that's good, because that's not God.
[00:29:02] Speaker B: Yeah, like, almost. Almost like the feeling of, like, then at the end of the day, it's all fixed, that kind of thing. You know, we're like, instead of going, it's gonna be. It's gonna be a hard journey, and that's okay. Like, God is still good in those hard moments.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think it's even one of those two things, man of going.
I mean, all of us have lived past the age of five, so we've experienced immense tragedies.
[00:29:31] Speaker C: Fair.
[00:29:32] Speaker A: But it's being able to go, okay, the people you remember in the middle of the tragedy are not those that have the cleanest propositional truth statements.
The ones you remember in the middle of tragedy are simply the ones that will show up and be with you for the long haul.
[00:29:53] Speaker C: Right.
[00:29:53] Speaker A: The ones that will listen. You know, it's because you sit there and you go.
And I do kind of bang on Job's friends a little bit. But, I mean, they did something that was much better than what most of us do, which is at least they were silent for seven days, just sat there. They ended up. Yeah, yeah. I mean, they screwed up after that on the eighth day and beyond.
[00:30:13] Speaker B: But when they opened their mouth, right?
[00:30:15] Speaker A: Yeah, totally. But even.
Even now it's so. I like, walk with a lot of people in hospice too, as well, you know, and it's going.
During these times, they don't need somebody that's going to come in with clean propositional statements.
What they need is the presence of somebody, which, by the way, and I think that's the big deal of us who walk with Jesus is going, no, no, no, you actually are a mobile temple of the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is alive and well in you. Alive and well in you. And so any place you are, along with any time you live into the grain of love, you are expressing the ways of Jesus.
And so if we only think that that is done through the addiction to words, we will miss it.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: I love what you're saying. What's the encouragement you would.
Sorry, the vacuum was going on.
What is the encouragement that you would share with people in the American church who see this? Like, what would you encourage them with as we kind of wrap this up? What are some thoughts that you would share with them?
[00:31:26] Speaker A: Yeah, number one, I'd start to really actually read the Psalms because the most common genre in the psalms is actually lament. It's more than praise or thanksgiving.
And so over a third of the Psalms are lament. So I'd start there and read them, but then I'd start probably writing some out as well too, of being able to go, okay, God, this is really what's in my heart is what I think. But then maybe also ask God, what do you see that's in my heart? Because he might even speak more earthy to you than you've been speaking earthy to him and start writing some of these things out. Number one. Number two is my prayer is that lament becomes a pressure release valve for grief and pain.
That we can sit here and go in the way of Jesus.
Life can be messy now. Is it only mess? No, it's not. But during the messy times, how can we not also trivialize other people's pain, but also not just become profoundly negative all the time?
You see, because it's interesting because whenever I started to lament more and more, I actually became a more optimistic person.
And I think that that's critical, especially in a society that is addicted to cancel culture, a society that is easily offended and thin skinned.
Whenever we learn lament, we learn that it can be this, like this connecting ingredient with others on the reality of the difficulty of life, but also in the possibility of community walking forward.
And so that's one thing.
[00:33:17] Speaker B: Okay. No, I appreciate that. Yeah. It's a lot to process. It's good though.
But I love the call to the authenticity of it's not all going to be perfect, it isn't rosy at the end of the day. And I do think there's a lot of that, that reality of like, everything's gonna, I mean, everything will be fine. But like, but not feeling fine, like God's working this. But I mean overall like the, the, the, the value of authenticity and just being with someone is so powerful. So I appreciate that.
[00:33:44] Speaker A: I think that even that that last part is going like there can be a pressure release valve when you actually realize evil never becomes good.
Evil is evil.
[00:33:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:55] Speaker A: You know, like I even recently I've walked with somebody who was told and they had had a lot of this same abuses as I did growing up. And they were told in their certain context that number one, you need to learn to get over it eventually. That's actually what forgiveness is, which I profoundly disagree with.
But number two is that somehow you need to be able to praise God for that situation.
And I go, no, no, no, no, no.
The situation is always bad. What is good is the presence of God in your hell.
[00:34:33] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: That's what's good.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:35] Speaker A: The hell is not good. Hell is hell by definition.
[00:34:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:34:38] Speaker A: What's good is that he's with us.
[00:34:41] Speaker C: That's cool.
[00:34:42] Speaker A: And I think that's an important delineation.
[00:34:43] Speaker B: I love it. I love, man. Thank you so much for sharing that today, dude. And I'm excited. I mean we need to get you on again. Share more about kind of what, what the work is you're doing at, you know, overseas and here and how they get involved. We will put a link out as well with, with all your stuff as we finish up.
I would love to go to move into our fast five for you. And so are you. Are you ready for it?
Awesome. Awesome. Who do you most admire and why?
[00:35:13] Speaker A: My sons. Titus is 21 years old. He's enlisted in the United States Space Force.
My 17 year old, Justice. Just such a stud kid. Great entrepreneur, incredibly driven.
[00:35:30] Speaker B: Does he still have that amazing long hair? Does he still have that?
[00:35:33] Speaker A: He actually just got a cut.
[00:35:35] Speaker B: It was beautiful. Yes.
[00:35:38] Speaker A: It was like for eight years or something like that.
[00:35:42] Speaker B: It's pretty awesome.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: Yeah. And then my little feral six year old son, he is a.
He is a fully immersive experience. Experience. And I love.
[00:35:52] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: So, yeah. And why they are. It's the exact thing that I tell them every day is I tell them I love you. They say I love you back. And then I say I'm proud of you. And now what they say back to me is just for being me.
[00:36:08] Speaker C: Nice.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:36:10] Speaker A: So for them, they are. I admire them just for being.
[00:36:14] Speaker B: Oh man.
[00:36:15] Speaker C: Fantastic.
[00:36:15] Speaker B: Love it. Words of a dad. So good. Okay, number two, where would you like to go on a vacation with your family?
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Where I'm getting ready to go next week. Utah.
[00:36:23] Speaker B: Nice. What are you going to. What are you going to visit?
[00:36:26] Speaker A: Favorite state? We.
So we've got a friend that has a place there. We stay around like the Heber Park City area, but then we'll go down to some of the national parks and things like that. We vacation there every year.
[00:36:39] Speaker C: Fantastic.
[00:36:39] Speaker B: Beautiful.
[00:36:40] Speaker A: Absolutely love it.
[00:36:41] Speaker B: That's awesome. What are you currently reading?
Bible or another book? You know.
[00:36:46] Speaker A: Yeah, I'm a. I'm a nerd. So I typically have between seven to nine books going at the same time, so.
[00:36:53] Speaker B: Wow.
[00:36:53] Speaker A: Right now I'm reading the Other Half of Church, which is a absolutely phenomenal book on neuroscience and spiritual formation.
[00:37:03] Speaker C: Yep. Have read it. It's fantastic. Fantastic.
[00:37:06] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. And 44 poems on being with each Other is another one. Wrestling with God by Rolheiser is another one.
Poetry is Not a Luxury is another one. That's a poetry anthology. Alive Together is a Pulitzer Prize winner poetry book. Real Toads, Imaginary Gardens is another book on how to understand poetry. And then the Wild Iris by the famous Louise Gluck, who is also a for wonder.
[00:37:39] Speaker B: Wow. That's crazy.
[00:37:40] Speaker C: That's excellent.
[00:37:41] Speaker B: That's awesome. Okay, number. Number four. What is a goal you have for this year?
[00:37:47] Speaker A: Be present in every moment. Every moment.
[00:37:51] Speaker B: Love it.
What's the most impactful piece of advice you've ever been given?
[00:37:57] Speaker A: Yeah. Yeah. So my buddy Trent, that actually lives in Medland. Trent.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Trent who?
[00:38:04] Speaker A: Day.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:06] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:06] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:38:07] Speaker A: And so he. Whenever I was living out in Midland, so that was 03 to 06. I always had to set be a bit. Since I grew up in such a broken home, didn't really have a dad to teach me how to be a man.
I was like, no excuses, so what am I gonna do? So I would. And I still do this approach, guys and gals, all the time of going, what's your greatest success? What's your greatest failure? What would you change personally, family and professionally? So it's like a set of nine questions. That's a ton of gold for him.
He looks at me and he looks off a little bit and he goes, you know what, Vernon? I've raised two incredible sons and a daughter.
And if I was going to do it all over, I. I'd take my boys fishing more.
And I was like, you take them fishing more? Like that's. That's the advice you're gonna give me. And he was like, yeah. He goes like, I. I was a. I was a ball coach with them doing all These other things. But in fishing, you could have no other distractions. It's just you being out there with your son. And so for me, I never got into fishing, but I'm huge into hiking, so I just kind of recycled that into hiking.
And the big thing was just learning.
Learning to be present, you know, showing up. That's. That's what it is and stuff. So that's been the most formational advice I've been given in my estimation.
[00:39:43] Speaker B: Wow. No, that's good, man. Dude, thank you so much for being on today. This was. Yeah, this was good. It's a lot to process.
[00:39:48] Speaker C: Laying down ordinance, man. Fantastic.
[00:39:51] Speaker B: Yes. Yes. I'm a simple man. And so. But I did it. But I love what you said and man, excited. So people want to connect with you and your ministry. What would. How would they do that?
[00:40:00] Speaker A: Yeah, his voice. Global calm.
[00:40:03] Speaker B: Okay, we'll put that link in there.
[00:40:05] Speaker A: Yep. That's awesome. And I'm not on any social media.
[00:40:08] Speaker C: Smart.
[00:40:09] Speaker B: So you're healthier than most people.
[00:40:11] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:40:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I got off at about a little bit over five years ago and haven't really turned back.
[00:40:18] Speaker B: Haven't looked back.
[00:40:19] Speaker C: Smart, man.
[00:40:20] Speaker B: That's good stuff, man. We are so grateful to have you.
[00:40:22] Speaker C: On very much, man.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: Thank you so much for being a part of this. We will make sure that we put that lyric or that. That. That link in our. There you go notes, guys. Thank you so much for listening today and checking us out or watching us. Make sure you follow, subscribe, check us out on our. On our social medias as much as we have them.
[00:40:38] Speaker C: YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram.
[00:40:40] Speaker B: That's it, man. Thank you guys so much for being a part of today and we are blessed and I hope you guys have a rest of an awesome week.
[00:40:47] Speaker C: Excellent.
[00:40:47] Speaker B: God bless you guys.
[00:40:48] Speaker C: God bless you guys.
[00:40:50] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the no Legacy podcast.
[00:40:53] Speaker B: We'd love to hear from you.
[00:40:54] Speaker A: So email us your questions or comments to Infonolegacy IO.
