[00:00:01] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast.
[00:00:04] Speaker B: Brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries.
[00:00:06] Speaker A: For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
Good morning, Bill.
[00:00:15] Speaker C: Good morning, Travis. How are you doing today?
[00:00:18] Speaker A: You know what? I'm good, man. I'm doing really well. It's been a phenomenal new year so far. A lot of good things have been happening, and I'm excited because we might have Snow in the DFW area in the next 72 hours, and I'm kind of giddy.
[00:00:30] Speaker C: I know when we record this, we're like, anticipating a crazy storm. We're like, is it going to happen or not? We'll see what happens. And afterwards, I'm like, I can't believe we did this.
Good morning, Kyle. How you doing?
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Good morning. Good morning.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: Great to have you. Thank you guys for tuning in and listening and watching. We are so glad you're here. Where we want to help you wake up, gear up, and come alive. God called you to be.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: Yes. And as always, we're on Facebook, Instagram, YouTube. If this. If you find this helpful, if you find this interesting, man, if you could give us a review, we'd always appreciate it. If you give us a like or maybe even a share. So the algorithm gods, better known as AI will do whatever they need to to get this into the hands and the hearts of the people that need to hear. It would be helpful and thankful, as always. You can get information about Bill, his speaking engagements, as well as his
[email protected] and infoownlegacy.org for any questions, comments, concerns, prayer requests, or.
Yeah, whatever you want to share, I guess. Recipes, recipes. You know, we're taking it all there.
[00:01:30] Speaker C: We're down for some recipes.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Y.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: We are.
[00:01:32] Speaker A: Yes, we are.
[00:01:33] Speaker C: Especially with the storm. Maybe some cookie recipes.
[00:01:35] Speaker A: Speaking of the storm, here's the question of the day.
[00:01:37] Speaker C: Question of the day, Stupid.
[00:01:41] Speaker A: I love it. I love you, Bill. I love you, Bill.
[00:01:44] Speaker C: You're welcome.
[00:01:45] Speaker A: Ten years we've been doing this, and I just. Fantastic. You're so good.
[00:01:49] Speaker C: From my heart.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Okay, so here's a question. So let's say you're snowed in, hypothetically. All right? You're iced in. You're snowed in. There's the snowpocalypse that's coming, and you're locked into your house. And you. You're done with the tv. You want no more visual stimulus. You need to sit down. You have a great CD collection or record collection, and you're just gonna.
[00:02:07] Speaker C: Someone just went What's a cd?
[00:02:09] Speaker A: You put your eight track in the old eight track player and you just have a catalog of albums that you're gonna listen to.
[00:02:16] Speaker B: Right.
[00:02:17] Speaker A: Like multiple two or three albums. Who would be the artist? And what are those albums that you'd be like? Those are the ones I'm gonna listen to from front to back, over and over again. Like, that would be your go to.
[00:02:29] Speaker C: There's so many. But I will say the first thing that came to mind.
[00:02:32] Speaker A: Yes, it's just the Beatles. Oh.
[00:02:35] Speaker C: Like the White Album, Yellow Submarine, all of them. I just. I. Would you. I guess.
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Well, because I.
[00:02:41] Speaker C: Sergeant Pepper.
[00:02:41] Speaker A: I don't know. That's one of my favorite albums of all time. I just never get their names right when I use it on the podcast.
[00:02:47] Speaker C: So. John McCartney.
[00:02:48] Speaker A: John McCartney.
[00:02:50] Speaker C: For that one. I'll put the link right here. I think for that one we'll figure that out. So I think I would say the Beatles because I feel like they have a kind of a plethora of different sounds.
[00:02:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:59] Speaker C: That I could go through and I wouldn't get bored with it.
[00:03:01] Speaker A: Yeah. So for me, I'm. I'm going to go pivotal. Pivot. Pivotal albums in my first junior high.
[00:03:07] Speaker C: Say that again.
[00:03:08] Speaker A: Pivot.
[00:03:08] Speaker C: Pivotal.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: Pivotal.
You two.
[00:03:11] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:03:12] Speaker A: But old school.
[00:03:13] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:03:13] Speaker A: Like, I would go, boy, Joshua Tree, Unforgettable Fire, October, and then end it with Joshua Tree. And I would probably listen to Joshua Tree two or three times. Particularly the B side. Because the B side, I think some of the songs on there are just phenomenal, just great stuff. So I'm one of those true fans of you two. I'm not one of those artificial fans of YouTube.
[00:03:36] Speaker C: Are you a timeout? Are you? Second question of the day. Second question of the day, when they put their album in your itunes. How'd you feel about that?
[00:03:44] Speaker A: I had no problem. But I totally understand why everyone lost their minds.
[00:03:48] Speaker C: I was so like, what are you doing?
[00:03:50] Speaker A: The illusion that we have self control over our devices was absolutely ripped off like a Band Aid. And Apple made big mistakes on that one. Kyle, how about you, our resident music aficionado?
[00:04:01] Speaker B: So you know what? YouTube is coming out with a new album.
[00:04:03] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:04:04] Speaker A: Their new stuff. I could care less. I know.
[00:04:05] Speaker B: I'm just telling you.
[00:04:06] Speaker A: Thank you.
[00:04:08] Speaker B: I'm gonna go Eagles.
[00:04:09] Speaker C: Oh, I was gonna call that one.
[00:04:11] Speaker B: Yep. And if I had to listen to one album, it'd be Hotel California over and over. There's not a bad song on it.
[00:04:16] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:04:17] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:04:17] Speaker A: All right.
What was that again?
[00:04:22] Speaker C: You get one. I tell you, you get one every time. That's it. That's all you get. And we are so excited to ask this question to our guest, Jim Burns, author and founder of Homeward. We're so glad to have you on today. Thank you so much for entertaining our ADHD today.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: We're so grateful. I would love to know if. If you were socked in there in California and you had to listen to some albums.
What albums? And who's the artist?
[00:04:49] Speaker B: First of all, I got to say, you guys are cheaper than psychotherapy.
[00:04:52] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:04:54] Speaker B: I could walk in here depressed with anxiety, and I would have walked out, like, filled with joy.
[00:05:00] Speaker C: Amen, brother.
[00:05:01] Speaker A: Pray for our wives.
[00:05:02] Speaker C: Yes, exactly. Pray for our wives.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: I was going to say the Beatles, and I'm shocked that there is a brother over there that also said the Beatles.
[00:05:10] Speaker C: Because when someone loves the Lord. When someone loves the Lord, they have wisdom beyond their years. That's all I know.
[00:05:16] Speaker B: I had a funny experience with that, though. So I always listen to. I get serious fm, typically free when I travel and I'm in a car.
That's because I travel a lot and must like me. And. And I always listen to the Beatles Channel unless my wife's then there, because then she's not. She doesn't allow me to listen to them. But I was in Dallas, I think you guys know where that is. And I was speaking at a conference, and a woman came up to me and said.
She was talking about music and how music was bad and you had to only listen to certain Christian music. And I love Christian music and I love worship music. And she said, like, the Beatles, they're filled with, you know, antichrist themes. And I had just listened to the Beatles for 45 minutes driving over there, and I didn't know what to say. She had. Usually I have no problem making a comment. And I was like, oh, oh, well, okay. The next. So on the way back, I. To the hotel, I was listening to the Beatles and I thought they were pretty good. So, yeah, I'm a Beatles guy, but if I had to go with somebody else because I'm in Southern California because it's 73 degrees and sunny right now and we're not going to have any snow, I would listen to the Beach Boys.
[00:06:21] Speaker C: Oh, you know, I saw those guys live at the. Near the end of their time when I was a kid, and I. I really appreciate it, but I thought one guy came out with a cane.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Yeah. You know what? They kind of shuffle out now. The good harmonies and the amazing sound is right in the back with these Younger dudes. But you know they, they still sort of just. They honestly shuffle out.
No offense to the Beach Boys I saw.
[00:06:47] Speaker C: Not at all.
[00:06:48] Speaker B: It was amazing. I actually have a. A son in law who plays music. He was in a band called Augustana which was. Which traveled actually.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: Yeah. But anyway.
[00:06:56] Speaker C: Augustana. Didn't they do Boston?
[00:06:58] Speaker B: Boston, yeah, I think I moved to Boston.
[00:07:01] Speaker C: Yeah, that one.
[00:07:02] Speaker B: There you go. So anyway, he now makes some of his money playing behind guys like the Beach Boys. So we actually. He was playing the lead guitar but you know you kind of don't see him much. He's behind the other guys but they're. They're kind of taking it. But you know they've even the Beatles said some of the greatest musicians in the world were the Beach Boys. You know they learned a lot from the Beach Boys which was fascinating. I think they all did drugs together too. And why there were some problems but maybe that's why that lady didn't want me to read or to want to listen to Beatles.
[00:07:35] Speaker A: That's so funny.
So addendum to the question real quick, real quick. It's got to be real quick. Your significant other. What albums would they listen to? Because my wife would go George Strait, all of them.
[00:07:46] Speaker C: Like so yeah, my wife just kind of listens. She's not really an efficient for music. So when, even when I would write music and I was like what do you think? She's like sounds like music but I think she probably put on like worship, just general worship music. Yeah, yeah. She. She had. She has a love for that. So like Shane and Shane kind of stuff. Yeah. So like that.
[00:08:03] Speaker B: That's great. That's great.
No idea how to pronounce it. It would be some Russian star.
[00:08:10] Speaker A: The Russian.
[00:08:10] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. Kyle's wife is Russian so she'd have a hard time with it. But what about you, Jim? What about you? What would your wife.
[00:08:16] Speaker A: Wait, that.
[00:08:16] Speaker B: That is a random answer. The Russian. See I didn't know that about Kyle. Now I do. So I just love that. I don't even know one. I don't even know what Russian music sounds like. And I've actually years ago spoke in Russia. I don't think I'd probably be invited right now.
But anyway that's just funny. My wife would go with the Christian route. It would be Phil Wickham, Chris Tomlin, Lauren Daigle. She's got her list and we're going to go see Mercy Me here coming up pretty quick. And we just saw the pre screening of I Can Only Imagine two and Like, I cried in it, but she didn't. But she loved the music. So that'd be my wife.
[00:08:52] Speaker A: A little unknown fact.
Bill is an extra in that movie.
[00:08:57] Speaker C: I am an extra in that movie.
[00:08:58] Speaker B: You are. So.
[00:08:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker C: So the scene where.
[00:09:00] Speaker A: It's the one that he cried at. He knows what scene it is. It was the one that he cried at.
[00:09:04] Speaker B: I'm sure I cried through the whole thing. Timmons, I've known him since five. He was five and a half. So I just.
[00:09:08] Speaker C: Oh, that's crazy.
[00:09:09] Speaker B: I've done Life with Tim.
[00:09:10] Speaker C: So it was the one when you're in the theater and he. And like the. The confetti flies down and everywhere I go. I sang that song for about 15 hours. And so I know that song by heart now. But we were. I was just. I was just one of the. I always wanted to be an extra in a movie and without any kind of reason, I just did it. So. Yeah. So I can't wait to see the movie.
[00:09:30] Speaker B: So I could send. I could send you like, a piece of paper. You'd autograph it and send it back to me, and I could hang it up next to the poster.
[00:09:38] Speaker C: As long as you would sign this, which I would. Hopeful. I will. We will just trade off all those kind of things.
[00:09:43] Speaker A: But speaking of the book, Bill, why don't you.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:46] Speaker A: Let's get going, guys.
[00:09:47] Speaker C: I. If you're here listening, I am so glad. Man, there is a lot of wisdom you're going to hear today.
And it's not from just to. Just a spoiler. It's not me and Travis. And so just so you know, but we. I'm so excited because I think this topic is so important as we talk about raising adult children and where that line is. And Jim is an author of how many books? I mean, you've written how many books, Jim?
[00:10:08] Speaker B: A bunch.
[00:10:08] Speaker C: Like, a bunch. Like, I think like a lot in my term. That's lots. And so. But this one particularly struck my heart as doing life with your adult children. If you have an adult child. And whether it's good or bad, there is so much wisdom in this book and there's so much wisdom that Jim has with his ministry homeward. And so, Jim, I'd love you just to share kind of maybe why you started homeward and then maybe moving into. I know there's so many facets of it, but I mean, definitely with this. But I'd love you to share your heart as to why you, you know, your. Your passion for the ministry, why you started it, things like that.
[00:10:40] Speaker B: Well, when I was 18, I, I, I became a Christian when I was 16. Not raised in the church, so it was very new and very fresh, and I realized I had to change the trajectory of if I was ever going to do that. So I was a youth worker, and I hung out with kids, still love kids. My parents would say, when are you going to get a real job? And, you know, like, do something else? But I did that for years and years. Spoke around the country about 250,000 kids a year for, you know, a long time. Wow. But I kept thinking we should, like, the parents would drop off the kids at church.
[00:11:12] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:11:12] Speaker B: And then they'd go to brunch. And I kept thinking, actually, the kids should drop off the parents because the parents are the ones who also need some help. So I made a career change, actually, and I said, still, we'll talk to kids when I can, but I'm going to focus on parents. And in fact, my agent, my Lear agent, because by that time, I was writing a lot of youth books, youth ministry books, things like that. He said, why are you doing this? And I've never looked back. And so my thought is, I can help more kids by helping the parents of those kids and even the grandparents. You know, I was in Jacksonville two years ago, speaking at an international grandparenting conference, which I'm going to do in Dallas, in Frisco in March. And I and my friend Doug Fields, who's a youth worker guy, he calls me up and he goes, what are you doing? I go, I'm speaking to grandparents. He goes, yeah, you used to speak to kids. I go, it's kind of the same thing. They like the same humor.
And, you know, so if you skip parents who are intense and, you know, concerned, desperate. They're desperate. Which I, Which I speak to parents, but, you know, if you speak to grandparents, it's awesome because they, you can be corny, and they, they actually think you're funny. And, you know, I was at that conference, and a guy had a brain fade. One of the speakers had just. It was terrible. It was like 20 seconds of silence. And he was trying to think of something.
[00:12:27] Speaker A: And.
[00:12:27] Speaker B: And I leaned over to my friend and I said, you know, this is the perfect conference for that, because every grandparent has brain fades, and nobody, like, was all upset about it. And then he got. He found his. His way and he went on, so.
But that's it. It's all about kids for me, and how do I help kids to be the most effective I can. And it's really about helping those parents. For example, if you were talking about sexuality, all studies show that the more positive value centered sex education kids get from their parents.
[00:12:56] Speaker A: Right.
[00:12:57] Speaker B: The less promiscuous they'll be and the less confused. But if I ask parents how many of you received good, positive, healthy, value centered sex education, you know, four out of 400 might raise their hand.
So they didn't get it. And so now we're in this process with. With. Of trying to help parents get the tools to help their kids with, you know, a good value centered sex education.
You know, creating a media safe home. Because, like, my. I had this long. I had a phone. I'm older than you guys, but I had this phone and had a long, long extension.
And my mom would get mad at me because I'd be talking to my girlfriend at, you know, one in the morning. I'd go, no, you hang up. No, you hang up. And then we just kind of like fall asleep. I remember. Yeah, it drove my. It drove my mom nuts. But that was creating a media safe home for her. Today, it's a whole different ball game and parents have to be equipped. So anyway, I've never turned back. I love, I love doing it. And that's a longer answer than you guys were looking for, but that's kind of my great.
[00:13:51] Speaker C: No, it's great.
[00:13:52] Speaker A: I love it. As a guy who started off in youth ministry and familiar with you guys and Doug Fields and the whole youth specialties movement and everything else, and purpose driven youth and. And now being a church planter.
Thank you. Thank you for doing that and thank you for creating resources for parents. And I think I want to dive into, like, the latest book that you have out there about raising adult children. What was the impetus for that? Like, what stirred you to say, man, this is a big issue. We need to give some tools into the hands of parents as they help their adult children who are independent, navigate some of the difficulties in the world that we're currently living in. Because it is a crazy world in a lot of ways.
[00:14:25] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. I mean, I wish I could say it was this deep research and all this stuff. It was desperation because I had three daughters. No hormones or drama with three daughters.
[00:14:35] Speaker C: Man, I'm so sorry. I'm so. I have one daughter. That's all. I couldn't afford three. I give you so much credit. Are you a millionaire?
[00:14:42] Speaker B: That's funny. That is actually funny.
So I have, you know, I had three daughters who, who, you know, were raised in the church. I was not. Kathy was not either. So they were raised in the church and, you know, they got to a certain age and they're going like, this is boring. And there's clicks church. And I'm like, what is going on? This is the greatest thing in the world. And as they got to become, we launched them into adulthood. And they were never like the world's worst kids, but they were like, I'm an adult. Treat me like an adult. And I'd kind of go, well, I'm still paying for your cell phone. I'm still paying your college insurance for your car.
So it was kind of desperation. But what we had Homeward is the largest provider of parenting seminars in the US and we'd be doing something on, you know, talking to your kids about sex or we're doing something about creating a media safe home or energizing your family spiritual life, those kind of things. But it always came back to, so I've got an adult child and they've strayed or they're violating our values.
And I kept hearing that more and more and more and so finally decided to start investigating, partly for myself, because I didn't know what I was doing. We had never been parents of adult children. We'd. Parents of these kids.
[00:15:45] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:15:45] Speaker B: Now they've. They don't know what they're doing because they're not between 18 and say, 25. They were still trying to figure it out what adulthood is. And we didn't know what to do. So I started reading books. And then I gave a talk in Honolulu, of all places, and the place was packed. And when I said, sometimes our adult kids stray from faith and violate values, they groan. Now, I'm sure people have groaned when I speak sometimes, but they usually groan silently. But it was a, ah, kind of a thing. And I went, wow, we probably are onto something. And so I just kept talking about it over the years and finally wrote a book on it. Never dreamed that I would spend the rest of my life spending every day talking to parents who are struggling with their adult kids. Christian parents who are struggling. I have a book coming out in May called When youn Adult Child Strays Trading Heartache for Hope. And it's out of the amazing amount of questions I get on a daily basis. I think I got three this morning already. I've looked at them. Three from people somewhere around this beautiful world who are struggling with their adult children. And they're in shock that their child who was leading the Bible study in high school is now considering a sex change or Whatever it might be. I mean, it's not all that way. Like, that was never my kids, but they still bucked the system there for a while.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: And I would love to pull that thread a little bit because I had the similar conversation where adults have been so faithful in raising their kids and then their kids become independent and part of their independence is to reject some of the things that they were raised with until they realized some of those things were actually good. But how do you navigate, Talk to the parent real quick who has a kid, maybe in their early 20s, that are rejecting whatever values that parent has put onto them, whether it be the sexual values, whether it be the religious values, and how to maintain that relationship when that child, just for whatever reason, feels it's their responsibility to now put their values onto the parents rather than still being receptive to that. I would love to hear your thoughts on that.
[00:17:52] Speaker C: It's a good question.
[00:17:52] Speaker B: Well, first of all, you know, as a parent, you have to understand that when your parent, when your kids are in that mode, you're fired as a day to day parent because you're not, you're there. It's parent to adult child, but it's not parent child. And so you're fired. Your day to day parenting is done. I mean, that's how it is. Good work, whether you like it or not. And one of the principles in the book that you were holding up says unsolicited advice is usually taken as criticism. And we always mean well, but if we have unsolicited advice with our kids, they take it as, you don't trust me to be all grown up. And for a lot of those parents, the one you just illustrated, that their kid is now even trying to convince them they're wrong with culture or whatever, I get it. But we can't change our values. But we can stay in the story, because you mentioned it just, you know, a little bit. A lot of times what we're seeing with adult kids is once they get married, once they make babies, they miss the church, they miss the community, and so they want to come back. And it may be a different church and it may be a different way. I don't have a problem with that personally. But the point is, is that we have to stay in their story. And that's hard. So we have to stay kind of what I call in the messy middle.
Because is it possible to disagree with your kid and still show love? And what I'm saying is Jesus led with love. He led with love when he, you know, he sees a Prostitute, tax collectors, things like that. He still showed them love. He didn't agree with the prostitute that what she was doing was a really good job.
No, he didn't agree with that. But he also stayed in that story. And I think we have to do the same thing to do that. We need what I call the circle of support, meaning we need people around us and way too many, especially Christian parents who have kids who are violating values, etc. You know, they're. They're filled with so much shame. If we would have not gone on that vacation around Easter and taken the let the kids go to the mission trip, or if we would have prayed more, you know, we wouldn't have fought so much as a couple, or if I didn't get a divorce, whatever it is.
So I think it's important for us to realize that, you know, we are not responsible for the decisions that some of the adult kids make. And we put way too much responsibility on that. And to do that, you need a circle of support, saying, I've been there, I get it. You know, it may look different, but for me, it's staying in the story. Just stay in the story. And, you know, sometimes they need a bump in the road. And we never dreamed our kids were going to do the bump in the road. We thought our kids would be the ones who didn't bump because, you know, a generation of parents that were raising kids in the church, they were doing the right stuff, right?
[00:20:25] Speaker A: They were.
[00:20:25] Speaker B: You know, you have a youth ministry background. They were going to youth group, they were doing all these things. Never dreamed that they would change their mind.
Well, they did.
[00:20:34] Speaker A: Well. And it reminds me of Paul in his letter where he talks about, don't forget, it's not flesh and blood that we're battling against. It's not your child that is the enemy. It's. It's. There's spiritual battle that's going on and raging for their heart as well as for your own heart. And when you were talking about Jesus and how he continued to invest in the relationships with the tax collector, I think two things that come to my mind, I would love to get your thoughts on that. One is having the discernment to know when.
When there's. When there's open or fertile ground to at least continue in that conversation. There's times that you might have to, like the father, the prodigal son, say, you know what? Go your journey. Yeah, I'll be here, but I'm not going to invest in this anymore. You need to go. And whatever that Rock bottom is go, enjoy, and I will be here to run and embrace you and bring you back into the family.
[00:21:22] Speaker C: But.
[00:21:22] Speaker A: But the longer I try to have this contentious conversation, the worse and the more division will happen.
The question, the question that I wanted to ask is Jesus was phenomenally good at asking the question.
Continuing conversations and asking good questions. How do you see that as becoming a parent of adult children, becoming a skill that needs to be learned, where you're not defending your position, but you're just asking questions to allow them to journey through that decision that they've made?
[00:21:53] Speaker B: Yeah, I think the. I think you're hitting the nail on the head there. I think we have to ask good questions. They can't be questions that are kind of a shrouded preaching guilt luxury stuff, because again, we can be passive aggressive and we can ask them, you know, questions that they know. I mean, what I. A woman asked me just recently. She was talking to me, and her daughter was in college and she moved in with her boyfriend, and she said, do we keep paying for the college dorm because he's. She's not living there.
And she goes, she was just blown away. And I get it. I totally get this one. I felt so sorry for her. And. And I said, does she know what you believe? Yes. Does she know how you feel? Of course. I talk to her about it all the time. I said, then you're going to have to kind of maybe just expand the relationship because you still have to build a relationship because she's going to crash. And the relationship was horrible. It was like an older guy, and what a mess. That's not going to last. So I said, so when she crashes. Not if, but when she crashes, she needs a safe spot. And if you're preaching to her every day and you're sending her these Bible verses, and I love the Bible, I believe.
[00:23:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah.
[00:23:03] Speaker B: But if you're sent. She was texting her a Bible verse, you know, a day. And if you're doing that, then you may not be safe. And I don't want her to run into the arms of someone else because you're not safe. So she goes, well, what do you do? And I go, what does she like to do? And she said, well, she likes to shop.
Okay, so how. And the school was about an hour and a half away. I go, why don't you go on a shopping, retail therapy, you know, you don't have to spend a lot of money, but, you know, just buy food. Like, I. My kids, all three of my daughters are adults. Now, but I have a date every month with them, and two of them live in la. I live in Orange County, California. And so one lives right by us, so she's easy. But the other two, you know, it's harder to get up there. But I find sometimes all we did was talk about snowboarding or the latest music because one of them is married to the rock star, and so we'll talk about that. But other times it's when I'm just eating a meal with them and, you know, I wouldn't be in agreement with everything that my kids do, you know, and. And, you know, my one daughter goes to church with us, but I still wouldn't be in agreement with everything. I mean, that's how it is. But I just find that in that more relaxed time. So they have to know that I love them, even though I don't approve of everything that they're doing. And it's really hard because we want to just tell our kids we want to correct their behavior with criticism, and that's not gonna work. I mean, they can be wrong as wrong can be, but if we're just constantly criticizing, they're not going, hey, I'm looking forward to mom and Dad's time and Thanksgiving, because I was in Dallas. It's funny where kind of where you guys are. And I had this most amazing thing during the election and at Homeward, we never talk about politics, but what happened was a man and a son. I could tell that it was man and son. They looked alike, exactly alike. It was kind of funny.
And he says, so maybe you can help us. I am considering taking him out of my family trust. I think the guy had money, family trust, because he's not gonna vote for Trump.
And I looked at the guy and I said, well, what do you think? He said, well, I'm thinking about not having relationships. So in other words, move to estrangement because he is voting for Trump.
And I said, so what you guys are telling me is that we have a president who one of you like and one of you don't like, that's fine, but you're telling me you're gonna break relationship for life? I said, when I was 8, because they'd already told me that there was a grandson and a son who was eight kind of running around the church, who I could see. And I said, so when I was eight, I didn't even know who the President of the United States was. And you're telling me that you're gonna break relationship, and that little boy is not gonna Have a relationship with the whole family because of an election that was taking place.
And. And it's interesting because the guy who didn't. Who didn't like Trump, he was more. Wow, that's. I've never thought about it that way. The other guy was like, yeah, you know, I'm going to do that.
[00:25:51] Speaker A: It was like, dude, you don't know what you're asking. Yeah, it's.
[00:25:55] Speaker B: No. Right, right. So the point that I'm saying is, is we have to be careful.
You know, what's the hill we want to die for? I'm not sure. The hill we want to die on is, you know, some of the things that we're so worried about.
[00:26:06] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:07] Speaker C: You know, it's funny, what I'm hearing you say is. And I'm not saying safe space, but making sure that we remain safe.
[00:26:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:26:14] Speaker C: Like that. When they want to come home. Because you're right. We have the only hope in the world that we. How do I say this without sounding arrogant? We're right.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:26:22] Speaker C: Because we're leaning on Jesus. Not because of me, but. But it makes me think about how many parents even. Because I do some counseling, too, and how many parents will. Will pull up the verse. Well, children are to honor their moms, you know, honor their parents, and they throw it at him. But what is, in a practical way, what does that look like in the perspective of the. Of the adult child to say, I'm gonna. I want to honor my parents, but also I have my own wife and family or I have got my own. What. What's some wisdom you would share about that?
[00:26:50] Speaker B: Well, I think you protect and honor. And so for me, when, when I talk about that, like in a. In a situation with somebody, say an in law, or with your own parents, if they're. If they're kind of dysfunctional and they're doing some kind of weird stuff, I think we. We try to honor them the best we can, but we also have to protect our family. For example, I have a brother, and I love this man. And he was an alcoholic. He's not an alcoholic anymore. But. And it's funny if he listened to this podcast because our kids never did a stayover with him because he. He drove when he was drinking. Right. And.
[00:27:19] Speaker A: Right.
[00:27:20] Speaker B: That was not smart. So we protected our family. Our kids love this guy. I love this guy. But we weren't going to have him stay at our house. At his house, our kids, even though he was the fun uncle and everything. So we had to find times. But I wanted to honor him. The illustration isn't also apparent, but similar type of a thing.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: Very, very similar.
[00:27:39] Speaker B: We wanted to honor the relationship, but we were going to protect our family. So I think sometimes that's the case where we do have to protect our family. But I don't think the answer is estrangement. Today, 27% of people in the United States say that they're estranged from one family member. And it's not just adult children, but adult children is about. Number two. Number one is dads who, you know, got a divorce and are deadbeat or did whatever. Number two, though, would be adult children.
I. I think we have to be very careful how we. How we go about that.
The estrangement thing. And today, that's kind of popular.
[00:28:16] Speaker A: Right.
[00:28:17] Speaker B: So, again, I think we. I think you can honor and protect so. And our family, because we came from families that were somewhat dysfunctional.
Alcoholism on my side, and Kathy's family was just a little crazy.
[00:28:31] Speaker C: But, you know, is your wife's family my family? I just didn't know.
[00:28:37] Speaker B: Yeah. Maybe we're all related. We are related. Mother is from another mother, maybe the same mother.
But the thing I was gonna say is that it's so key that we do think about the protection thing. But I think it's important. Like, I realized with Kathy, even though her. I didn't, you know, like. Like every, you know, thing in her family, but I. She needed to have her relationship with her dad, with her mom. And so, yeah, you know, we. We would go and. And we didn't stay at their house. We stayed in a hotel, but we just made it. Me, you know, Jim can't sleep at their house. Well, yeah, I mean, I kind of could have, but.
[00:29:12] Speaker A: Right.
[00:29:12] Speaker B: I wanted to pray with our family. I don't mean that. And we. We could buy, you know, and so again, it could have been a Motel 6. I don't care what it was.
But we just had little things that, you know, we just didn't. That was how we honored and protected. We do that at Christmas. The Burns family Christmas party, so it doesn't get out of hand is like three hours.
[00:29:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:29:31] Speaker B: So we can handle three hours. So we don't. We don't do. Let's go spend the week together. We spend three hours, and then we're done. And we have a great time. Great people. They go on and some of them go drinking and they go, you know, kind of partying.
[00:29:45] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:45] Speaker B: And we're. We're back, you know, hour for the ufc.
[00:29:50] Speaker C: Bell goes off, and it's like, where do we? Yeah, we get it.
[00:29:53] Speaker A: So love. Love that. And the. The heart of that being, the intentionality behind it, you know, making sure that you're on the same page with your. With your spouse, for sure. So, you know, one of our. Our goals is that we would help men wake up, gear up, and come alive. And there's probably some guys that are waking up to the reality that. Wait, they're the ones that the boundaries have been set around, because for whatever reason, they've been the toxic one, or they've been the belligerent one, or they've been the, you know, unintentional or even intentional abuser within that relationship. If a guy is waking up to that reality of like, oh, my gosh, oh, my. And they want to rekindle or restore that broken relationship, what advice would you give to that guy that's listening, realizing that they're the ones that actually everyone's trying to be protected from?
[00:30:40] Speaker B: Yeah, well, when he finds. Realizes, because sometimes they don't realize that they're the.
That they're the dysfunctional one or the needy one or the wounded one.
But when he realizes that, I think he brings people around him. Like, I've been in a support group for 24 years with these men. It's a Bible study. There's six of us. We do life together, we go fishing together, we have fun, we laugh, but we also get serious. And so when Tom, 23 years ago, probably opens up his kimono and says, I'm having trouble with my wife in our marriage, and we all jumped in and we got really honest, we became better people. So today, because I'm in with these guys, they're my wingmen. I'm a better husband, a better father, a better Christ follower because of these men. And so men need men. But you've got 50% of men who are over 50 who can't name one best friend. You know, women all have BFFs and stuff. I mean, they don't all, but, you know, they have. They tend to have more. It's easier. But with men, it's. It's a different story. And, you know, I spoke for an organization that was a men's organization called Promise Keepers for a number of years. And, yep, the president of Promise Keepers, who now lives in Austin, his name's Randy Phillips, but he used to get in front of the men right before I would go on, and I would try to be funny. And then he would, like, have men crying because he would say, a man is not a man until his father Tells me as well. Most of their fathers didn't tell him they were men, so they're still kind of wounded. So I find that when men are willing to be vulnerable, have accountability relationships, and it doesn't have to look like my small group. It could be anyway, you could meet with one guy or whatever it might be. But when men get serious about it, that's when it changes. If men. Like I was on a. I'm on a radio show called New Life Live, and there's like 2 million people who, over a week, listen to the.
The broadcast. It's still on radio. And the other day, one of the. So there's two, me and another and a therapist, and then our host. And the other day I was talking to this guy and he wasn't. He kind of was just coming awake to the fact that he was doing, you know, he was a very successful businessman. It sounded like he told us he won't. Kind of car he drove as if that was his sign to success. Success.
And I said, you know, would you get help for your business if you would need it? Would you get a consultant? And because he'd already said he wouldn't get counseling. So would you get a. Would you get a consultant? Well, of course I would. I said, well, I think you're being a wimp. And the therapist just looked at me like, I can't believe you just called this guy on radio.
[00:33:09] Speaker C: Yes, that's why I like you, Jim. That's why I like you.
[00:33:12] Speaker B: But I think he was being a wimp because when men finally come alive to that, don't wimp out. Get the help you need. That's not going to make you into some kind of a pansy or a sissy. What it's going to make you into is a much better human being who can change the trajectory of your family.
[00:33:28] Speaker C: Oh, I love it.
[00:33:29] Speaker B: To me, that's key.
[00:33:30] Speaker C: I mean, you know, we talk about it here. If men come alive, the families come alive, the world gets changed.
[00:33:36] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:36] Speaker C: And. And so I love that you're doing this. Did you have a question?
[00:33:39] Speaker A: Well, I was just going to say I feel like this is like the fourth or fifth podcast in a row where one of the key takeaways is like, gentlemen, do not do this alone.
And it's more than just your spouse that you're relying on. You have got to find a brotherhood, a band of brothers, a wingman, a guy in your six that knows you well enough to call you out, that knows you well enough that's going to carry your burdens with you and is going to continue to intentionally invest in those relationships. Right. If you go radio silent for a few days, they know something's wrong. So they're going to ask you, hey, what's going on? What changed? What shifted? And we need that so desperate in our world.
[00:34:13] Speaker C: And I think, I think the thing I love about what you're saying, Jim, if I'm changing the word a little bit, is we're not just calling men to not do something, but to come alive to something. Like the more that. No, I see the potential in who you are, go and do it. And so many men are just told, no, stop that, stop that.
[00:34:28] Speaker A: Right.
[00:34:29] Speaker C: But if we, if we encourage men to come alive to their culture, it doesn't just change them, it changes everybody around them.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:34:35] Speaker C: I love this man.
[00:34:37] Speaker B: It really does. Even if men go to church, then their kids are. There's a greater chance that their kids will go to church if the dad goes to church than if the mom goes to church. I mean, it's just fascinating. But yeah. And we can't do it alone. You know, I say there's VDPs, very draining people. And we all are. I mean, it might be our sister in law who, you know, needs money or whatever.
That's another conversation, another day.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: On balance, like I said, that seems a little close to home there, Jim.
[00:35:03] Speaker B: It is, believe me. But I will not go farther. But VIPs men don't lean into replenishing relationships.
[00:35:13] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:13] Speaker B: And so we need to have VIPs, very inspiring people around us.
So there are times like, I've got a mentor. His name is Terry. He's in my small group, but he's older than me. And I just simply kind of go sometimes. I know I should say, what would Jesus do? They used to have a little bracelets, but I kind of go, what would Terry do in this case? And, you know, he helps me. I mean, even Paul said, imitate me.
[00:35:34] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:34] Speaker B: And that used to bug me. I'm like, I'm supposed to imitate Jesus. You know, if I could imitate Paul, I'd be doing better.
[00:35:40] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: I'm supposed to imitate Jesus. And I want to, but, you know, I need, I need a roadmap to do that. And sometimes it's people that I go have coffee with.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:35:49] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:35:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:50] Speaker C: Man, I'm loving it.
[00:35:51] Speaker B: You're talking about your specialties. And, you know, so I traveled with your specialties. And Doug Fields, you mentioned him, he was in my youth group. He became a Christian ninth grade. You know, in my youth group. But, you know, we do life together still with those guys. I don't see them all the time, but they're still part of that, you know, like, I was just with the president of you specialist Tick Long, and we're having lunch together and we drive about an hour to see each other and, you know, we just stop. We just start right where we were. That's because of years of being open and vulnerable and, and talking through things and seeing the good and the bad and the ugly with each other. But being. You know, when the Bible says, confess your sins to one another, I mean, that's weird because I get confessing your sins to God, but confess your sins to one another, but then it says, and you will be healed.
So when you confess your sins to God, you're forgiven. That would mean healed too, I guess. But when you confess your sins to somebody else, I'm struggling in this area or this, you know, my wife and I are having a problem or whatever. You do that and you'll be healed. And I even had one of the guys in my group say to me a couple years ago, I was whining about my schedule. And he goes, well, who makes your schedule? And I said, well, I do. And he goes, well, what's wrong with your self image to say yes to so many things? Because, I mean, don't you have power to say no? Why are you some kind of people pleaser? And he wasn't saying that, you know, terrible. He was saying it to, you know, because he loved me, you know.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:20] Speaker B: And.
And we have to be careful. A lot of men interesting enough become people pleasers. But we're not people pleasers to our family. We're trying to please our, our work people or, you know, people who are on the outside.
I have a funny story. I wrote a book called have serious fun and 12 other. It's actually not on just fun, but it was on 12 things. In fact, I write books. Some of them have been very good. I think probably my mother bought that book and that was about it. But.
But in it I said I was the president of People Pleasers Anonymous.
And, you know, I mean, I just made it up. I doubted if there was a People Pleasers Anonymous. So I just, you know, was in the book and I get a letter from the president of People Pleasers Anonymous.
[00:38:00] Speaker A: No, you're kidding me.
[00:38:02] Speaker B: Dear sir, you are not the president of People Pleaser Anonymous. I am the president of People. He had done good work because he wasn't trying to please me. And he said, you are going to have to. I'm calling my attorney. We're doing all these kind of things. And I just wrote back, tried to please him, going, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. We'll change it in the book. We'll do anything we can. And then he wrote back a very kind note. You know, I met no ill. And I was. I. I said, I honestly didn't know you were, you know, there.
[00:38:27] Speaker C: Even I didn't know there's an actual thing. Like, that's wild.
[00:38:32] Speaker B: But it was kind of funny. But, you know, I do that. We're all, I'll be cool to somebody that I don't really know and yet I won't then be cool to the people who are closest to me.
[00:38:41] Speaker A: Man, I love this.
[00:38:41] Speaker C: This, this has been fantastic.
[00:38:44] Speaker A: This has been fantastic. Thank you so much.
[00:38:46] Speaker C: Yeah, this has been great. And we love it. And, you know, before we go into the fast five, man, because we want to respect your time, too, but any final thoughts for those who are. Who are listening?
[00:38:55] Speaker B: Yeah, well, you know what? What? I'm fine. And we. We've been kind of talking about doing life with your adult children. I mean, this has gone, you know, in different ways.
[00:39:01] Speaker C: Ways. It's okay. The Lord. The Lord used it.
[00:39:03] Speaker B: I've called all of your listeners and watchers and whatnot, wimps. So, you know, that I'm sure they like me. But God, what am I doing? But, but the point being, you know, when we're talking about doing life with adult children is there really is a lot of hope. See, we. We always say in the world that I'm living in, 65% of kids leave the church, you know, after they graduate from high school and whatnot. What we don't say is that, you know, some. A lot of them are coming back. Grunts. They, like I said, get married and make babies. They're coming back in a different angle. They're still. They may not feel comfortable within the church they grew up in. Who knows? But, you know, there's some really good news. And there's. There's two parallel tracks. There are kids out there who aren't. Don't. Couldn't tell you what the resurrection of Christ means. There's a new generation, especially in the Gen Z kids that we're seeing. They're on fire.
[00:39:54] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:39:54] Speaker B: And they're doing some amazing things. So don't give up on your kids and don't be surprised if, you know, you find your kids coming back and they're not Typically coming back because of good preaching. No offense to.
[00:40:06] Speaker C: No, no fair.
[00:40:07] Speaker B: They're coming back to community. They want community. They've missed the community.
So I think that's really good news. So parents, there's some good news in it, but you've got to get your arms around how to, how to relate to these, this, this new group. They, they are not the same. The millennials and the Gen Z look at things differently. They've been raised on pornography, they've been raised on cohabitation, they've been raised on so many different values than what you probably taught them. So you're going to have to not be a one topic parent. You're going to have to love them. But sometimes a tough love and tough love just. And I'll shut up, but tough love just simply means allow the consequences of their poor choices to happen. That's what happened. You talked about prodigal son, that at the beginning of our conversation that dad allowed the, you know, the poor decisions that the son made. He probably knew that the son wasn't ready to take all that money, but he allowed that to happen. And you know, eventually he came back a little broken, but he came back.
[00:41:02] Speaker C: I love it. Man, this has been so good. Such an encouraging day. Parents, hang in there. And when, I mean, hang in there, don't just hang in there. Keep leaning on Jesus is what I heard today. And. But just don't do it alone. So, Jim, this has been great. You know, as we, as we're finishing up, we kind of have this other segment we do called Fast Five.
There it is.
[00:41:22] Speaker B: Cool sound.
[00:41:23] Speaker A: I apologize on behalf of those.
[00:41:25] Speaker C: Jim, there's a whole lot of stupid in this show.
[00:41:26] Speaker B: I'm sorry. It sounded like something.
[00:41:29] Speaker C: Do you want to hear it again? Let's try one more time.
There it is.
[00:41:32] Speaker B: So good.
[00:41:33] Speaker C: Like I said, there's a whole lot of stupid in the show. We are so grateful to have it.
[00:41:36] Speaker B: So the bathroom's just around the corner for you guys. If you have to go, just go, please.
[00:41:40] Speaker A: Okay. See you later.
[00:41:43] Speaker C: Oh, man. All right, question number one. If you could tell people to go support a cause or a ministry, what would it be?
[00:41:50] Speaker A: And what.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: Why? Yeah, well, you know, the goal of my life is, you know, when you reach the family, you reach the world. So I tend to believe that you give to, you know, things are going to help families on a secondary notice. For our family anyway, we give to hungry kids, sex slavery kids who have no ability to do something on their own because they need the help. And so we want to support them. So that's who we tend to. Who we tend to. Gift.
[00:42:16] Speaker C: That's awesome.
[00:42:17] Speaker A: Wonderful.
[00:42:17] Speaker C: That's awesome. Number two, if you could describe legacy with one word or phrase, what would it be?
[00:42:24] Speaker B: I kind of set it in there. I think it's changing the trajectory of your family. Yeah, we're the transitional generation. You know, you inherit the sins of a previous generation to the third and fourth generation, but you can break that chain in one generation. And to me, that's a good legacy.
[00:42:39] Speaker C: It's awesome. It's like crawling out of the primordial soup.
[00:42:41] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:42] Speaker C: Of your family and getting on the ground. Someone has to do the dirty work.
[00:42:44] Speaker A: That's your story, Bill.
[00:42:45] Speaker C: That's awesome. No, I love it. I love it. Okay, if you had to change careers, what would you change it to?
[00:42:52] Speaker B: Well, I've only done for, Since I was 18, I've only done what I do and so I love what I do.
But if I had to, you know, when I was 16, I was goofy at Disneyland and I loved that. That was a great job.
Although there was a couple 13 year old boys who like kicked me in places that should not have been kicked. When you were.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Hold on a second, hold on a second. I will confess, when you said Goofy at Disney, I thought you were just a kid walking around and you were Goofy.
[00:43:20] Speaker B: No, no.
[00:43:20] Speaker A: But no, you wore the costume.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: I wore the costume. I did the dance and I didn't, I did it in high school because my, I grew up in Anaheim, California, so it's kind of like everybody worked at Disneyland. And my good friend, the guy I played sports with, his dad ran the characters and they were in trouble. So he pulled, he goes, you'd be the good size for Goofy and you want to do this. And so my friend Steve, we both did it and we, we just kept doing. We made A$88 an hour.
I just want you to know we made big bucks.
[00:43:51] Speaker A: You brought joy to people at the most magical place on the world. Well done, Jim.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: Cool thing. So my grandson, who's James, he's named after me, we took him about two years ago to Disneyland and Goofy's out there and so he goes and meets Goofy. So then my wife goes, hey, get up there and take a picture with. With Goofy and James. So I get up there and then I start doing the dance. Now this dance happened in the 70s. Goofy looks at me, starts doing the same dance and he goes, how do you know that dance? And I said, well, I, I work at Disney too.
[00:44:20] Speaker C: I was you?
[00:44:21] Speaker B: Yeah, I was so they, they, they don't. You're not allowed to talk to anybody. So they have handlers. Back then I didn't have handlers. I just go out and, and, you know, see kids. But now they have handlers. And the handler actually took Goofy away after that. And I thought, you know what? I hope that guy didn't get fired because he was talking to me. We didn't talk, but he just. I said, yeah, I was, I was wondering. And then we just did this little dance. People clapped. I was like, at the old guy. They were clapping because, you know, I'm that guy. I don't know why. Like, we were in Hawaii and they bring up like the old bald headed guy and have to do the hula.
I'm like, why me? So then I do the hula and like, everybody claps.
[00:44:58] Speaker C: Like, I think, I think if someone said, bill, what's your spirit? I'm gonna say, Jim Burns, you are my spirit animal. I really, I really think so. I love it. I love it. I love it, Jim. I love it. All right, number four, what is your go to fruit if you had to pick one?
[00:45:10] Speaker B: Chocolate. Easy. That's a fruit. Is it chocolate covered strawberries?
I don't know. You know what my wife says I eat. Need to eat more fruit. But I love all fruit. I mean, I really do love fruit. But yeah, chocolate covered.
[00:45:24] Speaker A: And you know what? It, it works.
[00:45:26] Speaker C: It comes off a plant.
[00:45:27] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:45:27] Speaker C: It's. It's vegetables. It's all good.
[00:45:29] Speaker A: Yeah, I love it.
[00:45:30] Speaker C: That's the first one we had about fruit for chocolate.
[00:45:32] Speaker A: So tonight, when I have chocolate on my ice cream and like, this is fruit on my ice cream, according to Jim Burns. And I'm good.
[00:45:38] Speaker B: Exactly. It's good for the calories.
[00:45:40] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh, I love it. All right, number five, what do you want to be remembered by from those closest to you?
[00:45:46] Speaker B: Well, you know, there's Bible verse that says, the man of integrity walks securely. And I'm convinced that the man of integrity walks securely and their kids will also walk securely and their people around them will walk securely. So I want to be a person of integrity who changed the trajectory of his family. Faithful to God, faithful to my family, and finished. Well, too many people my age aren't finishing well right now, and that's terrible.
[00:46:11] Speaker C: No, I love it. I love.
[00:46:12] Speaker A: Jim, I cannot thank you enough for your time today, for being faithful and writing the books that you've written and having the conversations and answering the questions that people present to you and send to you through email or Whatever. So thank you so much for that. And man, just good stuff today.
[00:46:27] Speaker B: Great stuff. Like I said, you guys are cheaper than psychotherapy. I'm like, you know, I don't go to a therapist, but I think I'll cancel my appointment if I did because.
[00:46:35] Speaker C: Well, you can check us out. Yeah, well, we will put a link.
[00:46:39] Speaker B: I'll sing Beatles. You know, I'll do It's a Beautiful Day.
[00:46:42] Speaker A: All the pagan albums you'll listen to.
[00:46:46] Speaker B: No, not that Chris Tomlin stuff.
[00:46:48] Speaker C: Yes, I know, I know. We'll just listen that in heaven when he's in worship.
[00:46:53] Speaker B: Listen to it because when Kathy's in the car, it's no Beatles, it's Phil Wickham.
[00:46:57] Speaker A: And our wives make us much better people again.
[00:47:01] Speaker C: When you marry out of your league, it's just what happens. Yes, it's part of the go to. But Jim, this has been great. I hope we would love to have you on again to share more.
[00:47:09] Speaker B: You guys are awesome.
[00:47:10] Speaker C: Oh, well, we've been blessed. We will put a link to your information there. Guys, if you're out there listening, check out these links, purchase these books. I love that we're able to bring wise, Christ centered men into our community to be a part of what we're doing. So please go and check out Homeward Ministries and man. Thank you again. Jim, Travis, it's been a great day.
[00:47:30] Speaker A: It has been.
[00:47:31] Speaker C: And guys, one more thing. If you have not signed up yet for our men's retreat April 10th through the 12th, we'd love to have you join us for that. It's gonna be a great weekend.
[00:47:39] Speaker A: Correct.
[00:47:40] Speaker C: We're gonna have a great time for you to get alone with the Lord and connect with someone else. An armor bearer to help you come alive to who you're created to be. So thank you guys so much. Travis.
[00:47:48] Speaker A: Yeah. Gentlemen, it's time. Wake up, gear up and let's come alive. God bless you guys. Have a good week.
Thanks for listening to the no Legacy podcast. We'd love to hear from you. So email us your questions or comments to Infonolegacy.
