[00:00:01] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy Podcast brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
[00:00:14] Speaker B: Good morning everybody. Welcome to the Known Legacy Podcast. We want you to wake up, gear up and come alive to who God has created you to be. Travis, good morning.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Good.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: How you doing, man?
[00:00:24] Speaker A: I'm doing fantastic, Bill. It is a beautiful day here in the DFW area and we are so blessed to have an amazing guest today.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: We are.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: His name is Ryan. To Netti and I'm excited about that.
[00:00:34] Speaker B: We are ready for to Netti.
[00:00:39] Speaker A: How is that not on a T shirt? That needs to be the entire family T shirt. That's our gift to you, Ryan. You know what your family reunion T shirts can be now. So anyways, thank you guys for checking us out. As always, this is Known Legacy Podcast and it's just one of the many ministry things that we do. And as always, you can find us on Instagram, your favorite podcast platform, as well as YouTube and Facebook. We have a brand new Facebook group that Bill's going to tell you about. Just a second. And our heart is to help guys wake up, gear up and come alive because God has called you, he has forgiven you, and he has so much in store for you. And so infoonelegacy.org if you have questions, comments, concerns or complaints. And we, we don't often reply to the complaints, but we read them just so you know.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: We just pray for you.
[00:01:24] Speaker A: Yeah, we just pray for you and say God bless your soul anyways. And, and yeah, and go to the website for if you want to donate and help support the mission Ministry of Known Legacy. We'd love to have you do that too. So Bill, tell us a little bit about what Known Legacy has in store.
[00:01:40] Speaker B: Yeah, we've got a couple things, guys. Every week at 6:45 on Thursday mornings, we have a phone in Bible study called Adrenaline Shots for guys all over the country. So we'd love you to be a part of that. There's a link provided below if you feel like you need community, if you want to be a part of something. We are moving and shaking and we want you to be a part of what we're doing. That is one of the ways that you can connect. Another way is we have a new Facebook group called Known Legacy Brotherhood. For those of you guys who still have a Facebook page way back in the back corner of your of your life, we would love you to join that man. And that generally is guys 35 to 50 who still have one somewhere. So we'd love you to be a part of that. It's just a way to be encouraged on the day in doubt. And we're excited, excited to get that started. Have guys being honest and real. And the last thing we have for you is if you're in your journey as a child of God, you're going, I don't know where I am or I want to kick start my journey. Journey. We have a new wake up Guide and seven day reset just for you that we have, we have produced because we want to just see men understand and get started. There's so many things like how do I kick start this? So it's a set, so it's a wake up guide that assesses where you are and then a seven day devotional that you can use in the next seven days to really get to connect with yourself, with God and really come alive to who he's called you to. And that is available. There'll be a link for all of these things provided below. We are so thankful that you chose this moment with us on your YouTube face, on your YouTube space and your, or your, or your podcast or whatever. We'd love to have you guys.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: We are professionals.
[00:03:10] Speaker B: Just remember that, yes, you may be
[00:03:12] Speaker A: thinking to yourself, surely I could do better. You could do better than this.
[00:03:17] Speaker B: One more thing, guys, if you're here, we'd like you to like this and then share it with someone. Follow us please, on the. On wherever you are. And man, leave us a review. If you're on Spotify or Apple podcasts, wherever, we would love you to share this with others because that helps us get the algorithm out to help other men come alive.
[00:03:34] Speaker A: I love it. I love it. So without further ado, let us get to the question of the day.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Question of the day.
[00:03:44] Speaker A: The high production value here at Known Legacy we're proud of.
[00:03:46] Speaker C: Incredible.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Thank you very much, Ryan. So I got to tell a little backstory that inspires this question.
Last week I had a chance to spend the entire week with Mr. Tonetti.
We're ready for Tonetti. And that's going to be it now forever, by the way.
[00:04:02] Speaker C: I'm here for it.
[00:04:03] Speaker A: And. And we were out in Coeur d' Alene Hayden Lake area of Idaho and we had to go get Frisbees because we lost our.
[00:04:10] Speaker B: Is it beautiful out there?
[00:04:12] Speaker A: Gorgeous.
Just gorgeous. And we had to go to Black Sheep, which is like the dick sporting goods or whatever. And. And what they did is they had become so successful that they bought an old mall. Okay.
And, and. But what they did is every shop that was in the mall is now Black Sheep Sporting Goods. So one storefront that would have been Claire's, you know, for Ear is now like toys and for Black Sheep and one is like the kayak store, and one is all the knives you could ever want in one. And so this entire mall that was the life of this community at one point has become nothing more than just Black Sheep and their little, like, you know, shops. Empire.
[00:04:55] Speaker B: Empire got it super cheap. If they bought a whole mall, that's pretty awesome.
[00:04:58] Speaker A: Yeah. And so, you know, we're walking around and we're trying to find these, these golf discs and unsuccessfully. So they have everything. They have an entire mall, but they don't have golf discs. Anyways, that's a whole nother conversation. And I was just walking around, I was like, man, this is kind of depressing. Like, I remember back in the day, like the mall was the thing. Like, you would have to convince your mom all morning to drop you off at the mall to spend the afternoon with your friend and just experience all that was the mall. And I just want to know from you guys, what do you miss? What do you miss about the mall? Kyle, our producer in the corner, I want you to go first because I don't want to steal yours. Okay. Well, I would say the mall is social media.
Oh, oh, now we're going deep. Right. So that's my comment. But anyway, two things. I'm going to take two. Go for it. Sabaros and Orange Julius.
[00:05:55] Speaker B: He went the food route. He went the food route.
[00:05:57] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: I, I'm gonna go next. I. I would say for me, now you're going food route too. So Taco Bell used to have a 39 cent taco.
[00:06:07] Speaker A: Okay, okay. How does this have to do with the mall? I have no idea.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: Because we had Taco Bell in the mall.
[00:06:11] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:06:12] Speaker B: And so we'd have.
[00:06:13] Speaker A: You had a bougie mold.
[00:06:14] Speaker B: Yeah, we had pizza.
[00:06:16] Speaker A: We had all Phoenixes.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: We had. So this was up north, guys. So Taco Bell was our Mexican food. Just so you know.
But what I really miss is, I mean, we. Because I lived about less than a half a mile from the mall. So we would bike down. Oh, and you could bike down. And you. So they had like the carousel in there. So you could see that when you were biking in.
[00:06:34] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:06:35] Speaker B: And they had the, the. The arcade called Timeout. It was Sega's Timeout and they had bought the whole arcade. So it was like, it was all these Games, but I guess sponsored by Sega.
[00:06:45] Speaker A: Right.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: And just mean for a quarter. And the game seemed to last longer for a quarter than they ever did. So for like $5 you could enjoy like hours of fun.
[00:06:55] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: And yeah, I do miss that because I'd go and get a 39 cent taco and then I would go and I would go and play in timeout.
[00:07:02] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. So I would definitely agree with the. Ours was called Aladdin's Castle and it was where all of the junior high and high school dropouts would hang out and, you know, play Dragons Lair and Galaga and Rampage and all those phenomenal Dragons Lair sucked.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: You could never get like I was. Oh, I'd always get flamed up by that. Like, what the heck, man? You press the one button fast enough, you're like, no, no, no, not this time.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: So now we're talking about Bill's trauma.
[00:07:28] Speaker B: Exactly, exactly.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: So, no, but I, I just, I loved like the vibe in the field because there's one door that we would all. My. My best friend and I would always go in. We'd walk the entire length of the mall. And I loved the Christmas time in the mall. Like, yeah, there was, there was something magical that happened when you saw that 50 foot tree in the atrium of the mall and everything and around every corner there was some kind of like Christmas and the music was playing and everyone had. There was just a vibe and energy and an excitement in that Christmas season. You know, I miss the mall in Christmas. I miss it and the people. So with that in mind, I want to introduce our guest today. His name is Ryan Tonetti. Ready for Tonetti.
And I have known Mr. Tonetti for 11 years. It turns out we met a buddy of ours hosts a yearly conclave, for lack of a better term. And we get together out in Hayden Lake and we talk through deep theological questions, issues and challenges within our culture and within the church. And it's always good. Exhausting mentally, but life giving in so many ways. We have good food, we have good fellowship, and I enjoy a good cigar from time to time. Ryan does not partake. And I do hold that against him. No, but.
And just over the times of getting to know him and seeing his journey from being a pastor in Spokane, Washington, to becoming a pastor in a small church in rural Michigan and just his impact in that community. And now as a seminary professor at Concordia St. Louis Seminary, he is a dude who thinks deeply, but he makes it palatable and approachable for the average Joes. And that's what I so appreciate about him, he can pull out a Latin phrase and poetry from before there was writing, and then he'll weave it into like everyday life and you're like, oh, that's cool. And so anyways, he wrote a book not too long ago. I got it. And it is absolutely transformative. And it's called the. Oh, now it's gonna.
[00:09:35] Speaker B: You just said it.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: Yeah. The Quiet Ambition. I was thinking audacious. And I'm like, that's not the word. The Quiet Ambition. And it's this idea of like, how in such a busy, noisy world, how do we find this quietness and not lose our passion and our. And our drive, but allow that quietness to drive us in those things. Phenomenal book. So, Ryan, thanks for being here and tell us a little about your story and how you've ended up where you are and then we'll get into the book in the next question. Yeah, sure.
[00:10:05] Speaker C: Yeah. So as we would all say, the Lord has a sense of humor. And this was definitely not on my original bingo card for what my life is going to look like.
I wanted to be a baseball player like any sensible little kid. And it turns out I wasn't quite good enough to make it to the majors. And so I thought, well, then I'll write about baseball. And so I went to college to be a newspaper writer, actually.
Yeah, I started out in journalism. I went to a state school. Had no designs on ministry. My faith was there kind of in the background.
It wasn't super significant in my life for reasons maybe we could get into later, but you know, I grew up in a church going home, although they were split. My mom was Lutheran, my dad was Catholic.
And wasn't until I went away to this 40,000 person state party school that I really encountered the Lord and walked more deeply with him where it was like all these seeds that had been sown for years really started to germinate and to bear fruit. I started studying scripture more deeply. Changed from my journalism major. Didn't then leave the state school, but decided, you know what God's calling me here for this time and place. Ended up studying sociology because I was like, I guess I don't want to get a job after college, so.
But it was good.
[00:11:23] Speaker B: So I became a gender studies major.
[00:11:28] Speaker C: It wasn't all bad. Helped me to better understand groups of people, which it turns out is really helpful for ministry.
[00:11:33] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:11:34] Speaker C: After college, ended up going overseas for a year as a missionary with our denominational mission agency. And that turned out to be one of the best decisions that I ever Made because not only was that a really transformative year for me, but it was through that process that I met my wife. My. My now wife, Ann.
[00:11:53] Speaker A: She's amazing.
[00:11:55] Speaker C: Thank you. I agree. And we were both going through that same program and. And I spent a year in Bangkok, Thailand. She was in Taiwan.
Anyhow, after that, came back to the States, went to seminary, and the Lord has just had all kinds of adventures for me. I've had the opportunity to serve congregations across the United States, west coast, and then, as you say, in Northern Michigan. And now I'm just finishing up my second year teaching here at the seminary. And it's just been a joy and a blessing every step of the way.
[00:12:26] Speaker A: That's. Dude, you have been faithful and a gift. And I am. I am so excited that you are in the position you are to help form the next generation of pastors within North America and beyond. And so thank you so much for your faithfulness on that. But I do want to get to the book real quick. Quite Ambition.
It's not. It is.
[00:12:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Why am I.
[00:12:47] Speaker A: Why am I. Why am I having problems with this?
And like, what was your. What was your spark for that? What was the need that you're like, man, I gotta write about this and then tell us a little bit about the book.
[00:12:59] Speaker C: Sure. So I think it stems from both personally and pastorally. So if I can tell a quick story personally, and this is absolutely.
[00:13:08] Speaker A: Go for it.
[00:13:08] Speaker C: Yeah. So this isn't a story that I tell in the book, but when I think about where did this grow out of for me personally, and it's. I go back to the first six months of my pastoral ministry. So this is now 16, 17 years ago. I was fresh out of the seminary and I was leading a small church on the west coast and just pushing it, going for it, thinking like, okay, I'm going to do great things for God here in this community. I'm here in this godless, pagan California town, and we've got, like, when I got there, we had about three dozen people in worship. Okay. So it was a small church, struggling in so many ways, but I thought, I'm just going to. Just like my football coach used to tell me, I'm going to leave it all out on the field.
[00:13:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:13:48] Speaker C: And so I was working like a dog and putting on my own shoulders, in retrospect now, I can say is putting on my own shoulders so much of the responsibility that I've got to get out there. I got to pound the pavement. It's going to be up to me. If this church is going to grow, if it's going to flourish and thrive, and, oh, by the way, like, I've got one kid and another one is on the way. We're in a new place. We're moving into a new house. Like, there was all of these changes going on and all of my efforts for ministry. Well, maybe you can see where the story's going. It's within six months of when I started, and I find myself in the ER and worried that I'm about to die. I had woken up in the middle of the night and I couldn't. Like, my limbs, my extremities were all going numb and tingling. My heart is racing. I'm convinced I'm having a heart attack.
And I wake my wife Ann up, and I'm like, hey, we need to go to the ER right now. And she calls a neighbor friend to come just look after the kids. And we rushed to the er, didn't even bother to call an ambulance. Hospital wasn't too far away, and we got there, got into triage immediately. They're hooking me up, doing tests and everything. I'm laying there, and I'll never forget this moment of defeat where it wasn't even so much like fear. I'm about to die. It was just a sense of like, you schmuck. Like, you're just getting started as a. As a dad, as a pastor, and now you're about to just flame out. If not, if not, perish.
Spoiler alert. I didn't die.
[00:15:24] Speaker A: Good. That was gonna be my next question. So what is the afterlife like, exactly?
[00:15:29] Speaker C: Heaven is for real. I'm thinking about writing a book.
So the. The doctor comes and he says, hey, I got good news, I got bad news. You didn't have a heart attack. You had a panic attack. Okay, that's the. The good news. You had a really severe panic attack, and so you're going to be okay. But he says, the bad news is some things are going to have to change in your life.
[00:15:53] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:15:54] Speaker C: And then he asked me the question that I was dreading. He says, so, what do you do for a living?
And I was like, I'm a pastor.
And he says, yeah, I see a few of you guys in here.
[00:16:07] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: And it was this wake up call.
Like, man, although I profess that I am justified, saved by faith, apart from my works, I realized that I was totally by my life, betraying that profession and living instead as though I was. I was justified by my own work and putting way too much of that on my Shoulders. And so, you know, that moment was a wake up call. And it's the beginning, I think, of a journey that continues to this day to try to balance this reality of, on the one hand, wanting to use my gifts and talents, skills well to the glory of God and service to my neighbor, while at the same time recognizing that ultimately it's not up to me. And it's certainly not about exalting and elevating myself, which is so much of the conversation about ambition in our society.
So maybe I'll just pause there. So that's kind of personally, that's where it's sort of come from for me. So I don't know if you want to react or respond to that.
[00:17:08] Speaker A: Well, no, I think it's right on. And I think whether you're in the church or not, I see a lot of guys suffering from that panic and that feeling like the weight of the world is on their shoulders and it's up to them to produce and it's up to, for them to provide.
And they literally are killing themselves physiologically. Is that a word?
[00:17:26] Speaker B: Physiologically.
[00:17:27] Speaker A: Physiologically they're killing themselves. And you know, the stress, the anxiety, the heart issues that are coming for everything else, or even worse, the self medication that they're diving into to try and numb that because they're out of balance. And I love that idea of like, I wasn't being true to who God has declared me to be. And so there was a disconnect there. And when there's a disconnect, there's tension. And when there's tension, that's when those
[00:17:51] Speaker B: things will fester, you know, and we don't do a good job in any denomination when it comes to what success looks like in ministry.
[00:17:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:00] Speaker B: You know, I've talked about this with many pastors and it's like, man, every time we go to like a conference, even if it's whatever conference it is, it's like, no, numbers don't matter. But, but here's Charlie and he's built the church in 9000. He's got 1100 small groups. We're gonna let him talk because he obviously knows. And we're like, but, but, but that's not, that's not really it. But, but he's gonna be our keynote speaker. And I'm like, what about, you know, Joe, who's been a pastor for 30 years in the same place? And he is, he's ministered to three generations.
[00:18:25] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:26] Speaker B: But that's not as valuable as have 1100 small groups. And this is how you do it. And this is what. And everybody in our church is discipled and this is what. And you're like, ah. So then you have this outside pressure of like, I need to perform because obviously that's what's most important.
[00:18:39] Speaker A: Right.
[00:18:39] Speaker B: So. And I don't know if that's, if that resonates with you, but was that some of the behind the scenes pressure from how that all got started?
[00:18:48] Speaker C: Yeah, so I hadn't yet gotten into like pastors conferences and that sort of thing. And subsequently I've definitely seen, seen that. But no, for sure that's, that's kind of in the background. And we, you know, we, we baptize it and we say like, I want to do great things for God. Right. I want to make waves for the kingdom and it can stem from a good and godly place. It's just so easy for it to get corrupted.
Yeah, yeah. I mean, this is really the nature of sin. I heard Tim Keller say once that this is the simple definition of idolatry is that anytime we make a good thing into an ultimate thing.
[00:19:22] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
[00:19:23] Speaker C: So it doesn't start out as a bad thing, but then it quickly gets warped. So that, that was true for me. And it's something that I think, yeah, I continue to wrestle with. No question. I mean, somebody said to me the other day, so, you know, you wrote this book, the Quiet Ambition. That's a pretty ambitious thing to do to write a book.
Thank you.
[00:19:40] Speaker B: Yes, thank you so much.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: So talk about.
Go ahead, finish up.
[00:19:45] Speaker C: Well, no, so that, that brings me then to why I wrote it for as a pastor and what I've seen, because what the struggle that I've seen with God's people is this desire to use their gifts well, to be faithful in their callings and vocations.
And yet this sense of, am I doing enough?
[00:20:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:20:07] Speaker C: Am I really where God wants me to be? Am I doing something that is significant enough? You don't have to be in ministry to be asking these questions and worrying and wondering, like, is it all going to add up to anything? And you look at this vast world. I don't know how many billions of people we have living on the face of the earth right now, but you can't help but feel very, very small. I was in New York City a couple of weeks ago, and you walk the streets of New York City and yeah, you can't help but have that kind of existential inferiority complex. It's like, how can my life really matter in the sight of other people? Much less in the sight of God. And I've seen many people struggle with that over the years. And so this book was really a response to that, too. Of what does it look like to lead a meaningful life that's shaped by the Gospel rather than the restless, relentless demands of the world, which always tell us that we're not measuring up?
[00:21:06] Speaker A: So let's get into it, because I think guys are wrestling with that. So what are some things that you uncover and you really wrestle with in that book?
[00:21:14] Speaker C: So I structured it around this sneaky good little verse from First Thessalonians, chapter 4. And if I was to do a power ranking of the apostle Paul's letters, you'd probably have Romans right up at the top.
First Corinthians, Philippians, Galatians, for sure.
First Thessalonians tends to be down on that list by no fault of its own. It's a great letter. And in the letter, you know how this happens when you're reading the Scriptures, and every once in a while you'll come across some verse that you hadn't already highlighted or underlined, and you just kind of overlook it. And I had one of these moments where I was reading First Thessalonians, and in chapter four, there's this pretty well known passage where Paul talks about the coming of Christ. And then, you know, the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised, and it's this beautiful picture of the resurrection of the dead and the life of the world to come.
Right before that, tucked into this glorious, grand picture of the renewal and fulfillment of all things, is this kind of like dad talk from Paul where he says, oh, and by the way, make it your ambition to live quietly, tend your own business and work with your hands so that you might walk gracefully toward outsiders and have need of nothing.
Oh, and I read that verse, and I was just so struck by this beautiful, simple kind of mundane wisdom that was juxtaposed, put right next to this grand picture of the renewal of all things. And what it spoke to me was, here is a picture in a few simple postures of how we can lead a meaningful life in light of the fact that ultimately Jesus is coming again and he is going to sort everything out. As we are talking today, it is the ascension of Our Lord. It's 40 days after Easter, and it's a reminder that right now Christ reigns at the right hand of the Father. And as chaotic as everything might look in the world, he is king, right? And he is coming again to put all things right and make all things new in view of that, what should we do?
Make it your ambition to live quietly, tend your own business and work with your hands. It's like, whoa, okay, that's kind of unexpected, but I think it's a more life giving vision for what a meaningful life can look like for us in the day to day.
[00:23:40] Speaker B: I love that. I mean, you know, God's teaching me. You know, we hear about the fruitless spirit and we hear long suffering. And I remember someone saying, long suffering means to suffer long.
It means to wait like that. But we're like, but I don't like to suffer long. I don't like to wait. I want the mountaintop experiences.
[00:23:57] Speaker C: Right?
[00:23:57] Speaker B: But you're right, you know, hope is shown greatest in the waiting.
And we are people of hope. But you can't hope if it's already here.
And so we're waiting for the next thing. So you're right. So what do we do in that? And most people are like, and I'm, I'm one of them. How do I get through this as quick as possible?
[00:24:14] Speaker A: Right, right. How do I conquer the mountain ahead, you know, make the biggest impact? I love that.
[00:24:19] Speaker B: I remember someone was telling me, my buddy Joe, you know, I was struggling one point, like, just wait, God, I don't know what God's doing. And I said, man, I just feel like I'm supposed to just freaking mow my yard. He goes, well then just mow your yard. Yes, for the glory of God. And you're right. And it's the same thing of like, just be steady. Because so many people are in the waiting right now. So many people are wondering what to do. What's the magic formula? Yeah, that like then makes me poof. It just happens super Christian at that point. And it's not. And I love this book. So what are some practical truths inside the book that you would share with the guys who are listening? That's saying like, hey, I'm struggling with this. Whether I'm in the waiting or whether I feel like I'm pretty hopeless or. Man, I just, I'm. I'm about to have a nervous breakdown too. What would you share with them?
[00:25:00] Speaker C: Yeah, good. So. Well, maybe I could just start with the beginning. So make it your ambition to live quietly. And I don't know about you, it's probably not as noisy in your guys lives.
[00:25:12] Speaker B: No, it's pretty chill. We're good. We just hang every day.
[00:25:15] Speaker C: I mean, noise is the order of the day. In fact, I came across this fascinating book by a guy, his job, get this, his job is he's an audio ecologist, which means that he's the guy who goes out to record nature sounds, you know, so that you can, you know, put on your noise canceling headphones and listen to some relaxing thing from Spotify or maybe you've got an old fashioned CD or whatever. He would be the guy who would actually record those natural nature sounds out in the world. And he's been doing it for decades. And he said like three or four decades ago, he could go almost anywhere in our country and be able to, you know, just set up shop, get his, his recorders going and be able to record like an hour of uninterrupted natural sound. And it was a beautiful thing. But he said that now in our day and age, there's only a handful, something like a dozen places in the country where you could have 15 minutes of uninterrupted natural sounds, that it has become this endangered species just to have quiet.
And so the title of his book is One Square Inch of Silence. And he actually, he got this idea, he's from Washington state that he went out to, is it Olympia national park or Olympic national park out in Western Washington, and he managed to talk the National Park Service into setting aside 1 square inch of silence that was going to be kind of haphazardly protected. And of course, you're like one square inch. What does this mean? But his idea was, okay, this is just going to be this one dedicated spot that hopefully, just as noise echoes and reverberates, perhaps quiet could ripple out too.
And so he has this one square inch of silence. And for me, I just think about, listen, we all live in this noisy world and not all of it's bad, right? Like, my kids make tons of noise around the house, but do I want that noise to be gone? Well, sometimes I do, let's be honest. But.
And yet there's joyful sounds with that too.
For all of us, though, whether it be our devices, whether it be the noise in our calendars, whether it be the noise in our own heads, of Satan trying to get into our heads, live there rent free. Like, there's all of this noise around us. And so what does it look like for me to carve out one square inch of quiet in my daily life?
And maybe for you it's like, okay, I mean, we're listening to a podcast right now. And so after, after you listen to this wonderful, wonderful podcast, yes, I'm going to take the earbuds out and I'm just going to go for a walk and not listen to any music, any podcasts, any audio books or anything. And I'm just going to allow the Lord speak to me with his still small voice in that place. Or I'm going to get up earlier, a little bit, 15 minutes earlier than my kids or before anything else happens. And it's a sacrifice because it means I'm going to have to go to bed a little bit earlier. But just to have that moment of quiet or on my commute, I'm going to turn the radio off and it's going to be me and the Lord and. Or me and my own thoughts, whatever it looks like for you. I think it's really a survival strategy in our noisy age to be able to carve out one square inch of quiet, whatever that looks like in your life.
[00:28:29] Speaker B: I love it. You know, so earlier, a couple podcasts ago, we'll put the link right here above this on, on YouTube, but it talks about the value of hearing the voice of God, right? And we talk about First Kings 19, where, where Elijah's running from, from Jezebel.
And God wasn't in the fire. God wasn't in the earthquake. He was in the still small voice. But it wasn't until he ate some food and took a nap that he stopped long enough for like two days of like. And we don't give ourselves permission. And that's one thing that, because we don't define success by, by quiet, right? We define it still by even now in my journey, like, okay, we've got to produce more. We got to produce more. Like, every morning I'm like, okay, I'm going to get up and I'm going to get in the word. And somehow I found myself scrolling through my, all of my like, like, emails immediately, right? Because of that dopamine hit of who's, who's, who's, you know, who wants. But what if the dopamine hit was, I want to meet with you, child of God. Like, if God was like, I want to meet with you and that dopamine hit came from the scriptures, Like, I'm going to gain my truth from that. So I love that. I love that reality of finding one square inch in our life, in our day to do that.
[00:29:39] Speaker C: Yeah, for sure, it's.
It can be a real challenge, but it's one that is, is worth undertaking 100%.
So another one of those postures is to tend your own business. And this isn't the way it's usually translated. Usually people say, mind your own business. Or, you know, as my kids say, mind Your own beeswax. But to the. The Greek word that's underlying that in the New Testament is more. It's more an action, approach, practice. And in fact, the word is the root of our word practice. And so it's this notion that, okay, how am I going to live in such a way that I'm attending to the business that God has given me to do? And so there can be an aspect of it where it's like, just stay in your lane, as we say sometimes.
[00:30:21] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:22] Speaker C: But I think more deeply and profoundly, it's the sense that we can start to feel like I need to take onto myself God's duties. I need to make God's business my business.
And of course, there's a sense in which that's true. You know, Jesus says, am I not. Should I not be about my Father's business? And we wanted to be about the business of the Father, don't get me wrong there. But in the sense that when it comes to actually, like, bringing people into the kingdom, that's the Holy Spirit's work. When it comes to being able to transform communities like, God's the one who's in charge of that. And when I think back to my experience as a new pastor, I had put so much of that on my own shoulders that I was trying to put myself frankly in the seat of God rather than just tending the business that God has given to me. Let me tell you one practical way this plays out, especially for men, which is the sense of, I'm going to say yes to everything that comes across my desk, like, if there's an opportunity or a possibility, and we all have ways of explaining it and justifying it, because we're like, well, this is important. This is good stuff.
[00:31:29] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:30] Speaker C: I should say yes to it. And you know what? It is important. It is good stuff. And that's part of the challenge for us, is to sift through and say, I am not God. I have limits. I'm a finite creature. And so for the sake of attending to my vocations well as a husband and father, and so I myself don't get burnt out. I need to recover the spiritual gift of saying no.
[00:31:52] Speaker B: Yes. Yeah.
[00:31:52] Speaker C: Like, how can I just tend to the business that God has given me to do and not be overwhelmed and try to lie to myself and think, I can do everything. You can't do everything. That's God's job. That's not yours.
[00:32:05] Speaker A: Yeah. And it reminds me of a long time ago, someone said, every time you say yes, you're actually saying, no to something else. And I think it was in the, in the context of being a husband for me at that time is I was head deep in ministry and I was saying yes to a bunch of you things and speaking engagements and everything else. And I think it was a guy, another guy, Don Christian. He's like, dude, every time you say yes to a speaking engagement, realize you're saying no to your family that weekend.
[00:32:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:30] Speaker A: And. And that was really profound. And I think that's what you're tapping into is like, it's defining. It's learning the skill of discerning and defining between what is good and what is God.
Because Satan will often tempt us with a lot of good things. Right. And stroke the ego with a lot of good things.
But if we're sacrificing God things for the sake of the good thing, we're actually moving in the wrong direction and our lives are getting noisier and the responsibilities get too intense and things can go haywire really quick.
[00:33:02] Speaker B: Yeah. It's like good, great and godly.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Like, there's some things that sound really, really like they're helping people, but really, when long, you know, it's like we can lose that opportunity, but if we lose our family, we lose it all. Yeah. So you're right. It's finding out what's most important. So what would you say to a guy who's like, I'm running the course.
I don't know how to stop. Help me out, Ryan. I'm ready to nadi. How do I do this?
How do I make the change?
[00:33:26] Speaker C: Ready to Nettie. Good. So a couple of things. One thing, this is a trick that I learned from the late theologian and pastor Eugene Peterson. And he said, you know, in our world today, if you tell somebody, if somebody comes to you with, hey, I need Pastor, I need you to do this thing, or so? And so I need you to do this thing. And you say, well, you know, I was going to go on a date with my wife. Actually, you can go on a date with your wife anytime. Like, my thing is more important than your date with your wife.
[00:33:54] Speaker A: Peter, that's happened.
[00:33:56] Speaker C: Oh, absolutely. It happens to all of us. I probably committed that to others, too.
And Eugene Peterson says, you know what? In our world today, one of the few things that's still sacrosanct is the appointment calendar. So he said, rather than tell people, oh, I've got a date with my wife or I'm going to go to my kids ball game, you just say, my calendar won't Allow it. My calendar won't allow it. And people will be like, oh, gosh, okay, yeah, no, I cannot transgress that boundary. And there's something about it where it makes it like there's this objective third party. You're not making that decision. You're like, hey, I'd love to help. My calendar won't allow it. And you're not lying. You're not being untruthful. The reality is all of our calendars are already way too busy and way too full. And you just tell the truth, but in a way that helps to lift the burden and make it a little bit less awkward in the moment. My calendar won't allow it. And that's a line that I use all the time. And it really keeps me from taking more on than I. Than I really ought to.
[00:34:58] Speaker A: Well, and I think it also begs the question of, like, are you. Is the first things going into your calendar the highest priority things? Yeah, like, if I'm honest, often I will. I will backfill my calendar with time with my wife. Instead of. That's the first thing on my calendar is the stuff with my wife. That's the first thing in my calendar is my quiet time in the morning. And instead it's like, well, everything else will fill up. And then, oh, I got. I got. I got one night this week that I'm not doing something. Let me just push through a date with my wife, which means I'm exhausted. I probably have five things on my mind that is not my wife. And she can tell. And so it's more of a business meeting than it is actually a date. And so, gentlemen, maybe that's one of the small things that you can do is just as you begin to move forward, wherever the break is in your calendar, start to schedule the greater thing, the God thing, and then allow the other things to fill in. And then, like you said, when your calendar is full, man, my calendar won't allow it.
[00:35:51] Speaker C: It won't allow.
Reminds me. So my favorite president is Theodore Roosevelt. Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy, he was an ambitious dude. He got stuff done, but he had a standing meeting every day at 4pm with his kids. And he, like, it was. It was in his book. And no matter what was going on, what kind of diplomatic emergency, whatever, it was, like, nothing could transgress that meeting with his kids where they would just get together and play and do crazy stuff. And other people would be like, well, you can play with your kids anytime. It's like, sorry, my calendar won't allow it. I don't know if he used that line or not, but he had it on the calendar. And to your point, he prioritized.
[00:36:32] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:36:33] Speaker C: What was most important, he put. He put it in the date book because we all know, especially as. As guys, when we get into middle age and more people are counting on us, if it's not on the calendar, it doesn't happen. So put that stuff on the calendar that matters most to you.
[00:36:46] Speaker B: You know, we sacrifice what we find most valuable. And there's going to come a moment when we leave our churches, when we're not around those people and the machine is beeping its last.
Yes. And we're about to see Jesus face to face. What's going to be most important then? I think if we can bring ourselves to that point, just. I think that's what you're saying, is bring ourselves to that point to where? Well, I'm glad that I spent time with my wife. I'm glad I spent time in the Word, so that when I meet you, it's not like, hello, my name's Bill. You know, it's like, it's like, no, it's like I've actually known you. And so you're right. We sacrifice what we find most valuable. We actually put those things on the calendar and make it a priority now. And it is a meeting. It's. It's an important, probably the most important meeting. And that's not even cliche because no one else is going to care about us at the end of lives. I mean, again, like we've said this before, our obituary will go out after our job description will be posted online.
[00:37:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:38] Speaker B: So if we can take the time now and go. No, what's most important is the people are going to cry most of my funeral.
[00:37:44] Speaker A: Right then.
[00:37:45] Speaker B: That's what we need to put that focus in. So, man, I love it.
[00:37:48] Speaker A: Man.
[00:37:48] Speaker B: As we're wrapping up, what would you finalize to kind of say, man, as guys are, hey, maybe I should pick up this book? What would you say to them about encouragement to pick up this book and, man, make some changes in their life?
[00:38:01] Speaker A: Sure.
[00:38:02] Speaker C: Well, so, I mean, just as an encouragement to pick up the book, if you like what we've talked about. I give a lot of just very practical stuff and tell stories of my own struggles. It's mostly my own failures, to be honest. So if we're reading, you know, it could make you feel better about yourself by. By reading it. But the message that I would give to you comes from one of my favorite authors, a guy who I feel like really embodies the sense of the quiet and the ambitious. His name is Wendell Berry. He's from Kentucky. He's in his 90s now, and like 50 years ago, he wrote something to the effect, I'm going to paraphrase, he says, you know, in our society, again, it's like in the 70s. So in our society, the message that we hear from everywhere is think big. But he said, you know, what we need right now is a very different message, which is think little.
And I would just leave you with those two words, think little.
What are the little moments in your day that you can carve out those one square inches of silence to talk with the Lord? How can you think little about what are the little changes in your relationships where you're able to show a little more appreciation and let those people who do mean so much to you actually hear it and know it and don't just assume that they understand it. But that's the message that I would especially send to. To men like myself who struggle with the big stuff. But recognize that at the end of days, what the Lord is going to say is, well done, good and faithful servant. You've been faithful in very little thing, and behold, I'll set you over much.
[00:39:29] Speaker A: So good, so good, so good, man.
[00:39:31] Speaker B: It's been life giving. This is good.
[00:39:33] Speaker A: I'm so happy you were on Ryan. So thank you, man.
[00:39:36] Speaker C: What an honor. Thank you, guys.
[00:39:38] Speaker A: Well, as always, we. We close our session with the Fast 5, and Bill's going to lead you through some questions, and I'm excited about question three. I think I know how you're going to answer it, but we'll see.
[00:39:49] Speaker B: I love this. I love, number one, if you could tell people to go support a cause or a ministry, what would it be and why?
[00:39:55] Speaker C: Man, there are so many good things that are happening in the world.
Can I get specific?
[00:40:00] Speaker B: Yes, yes, exactly.
[00:40:01] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. So here in St. Louis, I have a friend, a brother, who has an organization called Lutheran Development Group, and they are working in depressed neighborhoods here in St. Louis, and they picked out a couple in particular. And I love just the sense of we can't do everything. And so they've identified a couple of neighborhoods in St. Louis where they're buying up dilapidated housing in places where, you know, crime has come in, and they're buying up those houses, fixing them up, and making it be affordable housing for people in that neighborhood that they can be proud of. So that's Lutheran development group in St. Louis. And shout out to Chris Sherman and the good work that all of his people are doing down in St. Louis.
[00:40:43] Speaker A: It's living out what you just said. Think little, think little. Little things can make a huge difference over a long period of time.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:40:50] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:40:50] Speaker B: I love it. Number two, if you could describe legacy in a word or a phrase, what would it be?
[00:40:56] Speaker C: Stewardship. And it's one of those words. It gets co opted into just the sense of like capital campaigns and, and trying to raise money for church, this sort of thing. But when you really step back and think about what stewardship is, it's about how can I faithfully hand down what I have received?
And the older I've gotten, I've realized, boy, that's the heart of our lives. Like we've got this little while on this planet. Can I make it a little bit better than it was, than how I found it? Right. And I hope that to be the case in my home, with my family here now at the seminary, with my students.
So legacy to me is just about stewardship. Handing it down faithfully.
[00:41:34] Speaker A: What we've received, it's so good.
[00:41:36] Speaker B: Amen. Amen. If you could change careers or if you had to change careers, what would it be?
[00:41:43] Speaker C: So in the book, one of the things that I talk about is working with your hands. Right. And so, so much of my work is kind of in, in my head and it's teaching and it's with words and I love all of it.
[00:41:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:55] Speaker C: But I've had this fantasy that if I did kind of change careers that I'd be a barber.
Yes. You know, not, not a. Not at like Great Clips or Fantastic Sam's, but like, you know, a good barber shop. There's still some out there.
[00:42:10] Speaker A: Yes, there are.
[00:42:10] Speaker B: This is actually sponsored by Fantastic Sam. So we're in trouble now. I'm just kidding.
Sorry. Fantastic Sam.
[00:42:17] Speaker C: Right. Great clips. Or as my kids just call it clips.
[00:42:21] Speaker B: Clips. Okay, clips.
[00:42:24] Speaker C: But to be a barber and I've seen how barbers can just have such a ministry to people. Like you have a captive audience and you're just able to talk with folks and yeah. You're working with your hands and I just think that would be really cool.
[00:42:37] Speaker A: That's awesome.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Awesome. If you had a. What's your go to? Fruit.
[00:42:42] Speaker C: Yeah. If I'm being honest, it's just an apple. Especially like specifically a honeycrisp apple. Yeah.
[00:42:48] Speaker B: There it is.
There it is. Honey Crisp apples. That's the way to do it.
[00:42:53] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:42:53] Speaker B: Welcome to the team.
Yes.
[00:42:56] Speaker C: Team Honey Crisp Apple. I mean, northern Michigan has incredible, you know, apple orchards and yeah, I love
[00:43:03] Speaker B: Them So good, man. Oh, I love it. I love it. Okay, cool. Yeah. This is actually an interview, so welcome to the known legacy team.
All right, number five, what do you want to be remembered for by those closest to you?
[00:43:17] Speaker C: I hope just that I lived the joy of Jesus and that was able to encourage some folks along the way to live in his joy too. Jesus said, I've spoken these things to you so that my joy might be in you and that your joy might be made full. That's the prayer for myself and I pray that for my students and my family that they know that Joy as well.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: John 15 right there.
[00:43:42] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:43:43] Speaker B: We talked about it. Love it. So good, Ryan. This has been good, man. Listen, for those of you guys listening or checking it out, we will have in the session notes the ability to pick up Ryan's book. We'll put that in there. Ryan, how else can they get ahold of you if they want to?
[00:43:57] Speaker C: So they can certainly email me. It's just my last name and the first letter at csl. Edu and I do keep what we used to call it a blog, but now they call it substack, I guess.
[00:44:06] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:44:07] Speaker C:
[email protected] where a couple times a month I'll just write reflections on scripture. It's called News from Across the Seas. So that's my name.substack.com and love to connect with you there too.
[00:44:19] Speaker A: That's great. Thank you, Ryan, so much. We were ready for you and you did not disappoint. Well done, sir.
[00:44:24] Speaker B: So good. Well, guys, we believe in you. We do believe in the value of stopping and looking at your life. That's what we're all about is we want you to look at your life with the end in sight.
[00:44:33] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:44:33] Speaker B: And go. This is who I want to be. And so again, guys, if you want to, you can pick up the Wake up guide and seven day reset. That's down. If you want to join our brotherhood, we'd love you to join that. This is all free. And then join our our weekly call in Bible study as well as share like and subscribe this, please put a thumbs up. It helps us as you're still listening. It helps us to to get this out to the algorithm because AI runs YouTube now, so we need your help as well. Ryan, thank you so much for your wisdom and what you're doing. Travis, final thoughts, man.
[00:45:03] Speaker A: Boys, it's time to wake up, gear up and come alive.
[00:45:06] Speaker B: Have a great week, everybody.
[00:45:07] Speaker A: God bless you guys.
Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy Podcast past. We'd love to hear from you, so email us your questions or comments to infonolegacy.
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