Episode Transcript
[00:00:01] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy Podcast,
[00:00:03] Speaker B: brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries.
[00:00:05] Speaker A: For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now
[00:00:08] Speaker B: here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
[00:00:14] Speaker C: You're so awkward.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: That's like. That's the image on the. On the. The flyer thing.
[00:00:19] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, that's us.
Am I holding a coffee or something? I can't remember what that is, so I gotta look at that intro. Dude, I had the weirdest thing happen this morning.
[00:00:26] Speaker A: What happened?
[00:00:28] Speaker C: Like, I should go get a lottery ticket.
That's how weird it was.
[00:00:31] Speaker A: You already got your luck taken care of. What's up?
[00:00:33] Speaker C: You know. You know, I ever heard that saying, like, you know, it's like, I. I don't know, it's like. It's like women's hair is just everywhere. You know, I'm saying, like. Like one of those things, like, he will. He will never leave me because he pulls his. You know, he pulls my hair out of his butt crack. You know, the other kind of those, like, random because it's just women's hair is everywhere kind of thing. And in the shower.
Okay, good. Anyways. All right, good. Anyways. Yeah, so I was putting on a contact today. Now I put on a contact for, I don't know, 30 plus years.
[00:00:59] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:01:00] Speaker C: And I put it on today. And like. And literally, well, on both sides, I had to, like, do like, the long pull, like this. I had to go. And I was like.
And my. My dumb self didn't just take the contact out. I literally did, like, the four and a half minute poll. Like, and it was the worst thing in the world. But I. It was the first time it's ever happened in my life. And I'm like, I feel like I should buy a lot. I don't buy lottery tickets, but I feel like I should buy a lottery ticket.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: You know what? Welcome to Gnome Legacy, everyone. Where you can get.
[00:01:26] Speaker C: Welcome, guys.
[00:01:28] Speaker A: You can pick up Southern slang sayings. Your hair is everywhere. And. And, yeah, have contacts. Anyways, no legacy. Thank you guys for listening. And as always, you can check us out on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, knownlegacy.org is the website. You can find Bill's book over there. You can go back to past podcast episodes. I'm excited about our guest today. I'm very excited about the conversation about men and what God has in store for us. And as always, share like. And, you know, if you want to, you know, give us a review, that'd be really helpful.
[00:01:59] Speaker C: That would be always helpful. We're grateful for you and thanks for all your support so far, everyone who's been there sharing it, liking it. Yeah, all those kind of good things.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: So thank you. So today, the question of the day.
[00:02:08] Speaker C: Question of the day.
[00:02:13] Speaker A: I got two options, but I'm gonna go with this one. I'm gonna go with this one. I feel like we can have this conversation. So for the listeners or the viewers, you may not know this, but it's about an hour and a half drive for me to get here.
[00:02:24] Speaker C: Devoted.
[00:02:25] Speaker A: Whenever we podcast, we typically will do two on a day. So it's kind of nice every other week.
But some days the traffic between, like, Fort Worth and Dallas kind of terrible is terrible, terrible, terrible, terrible. So I'm in the right hand lane.
Well, the question is this.
Okay, what is it that you seen other drivers.
That is your pet peeve.
That just, like, drives you crazy.
[00:02:52] Speaker C: Me and Kyle are both fighting. Kyle, you go first.
[00:02:55] Speaker A: Let me set up the story first. Okay, so I'm in the. I'm in the right hand lane, and the stoplight is like 50 cars ahead, right? And so there's a chance I might mic the light. There's a chance I might not.
And I'm watching that, and all of a sudden, as I'm moving forward, I realize no one's moving in the left hand lane. Like, no one's moving. So I'm like, oh, was there an accident? What's going on? And I get to the third car from the car that's not moving, and there's a individual. I won't share gender. Okay. It's gender neutral here. I won't share.
[00:03:24] Speaker C: Is it really?
[00:03:25] Speaker A: Okay, head deep into their phone.
Just head deep. Like, into their phone, right? Not moving.
[00:03:30] Speaker C: I'm telling by your implication which gender
[00:03:32] Speaker A: would have the next car. Same gender is head deep into their breakfast. They're just eating in their car. Just like.
Then the third car, the first car, the car that should have moved 10 seconds ago, right?
Same gender, is currently putting on their makeup and heading.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: So no one's throwing away all the ideology of what gender?
[00:03:56] Speaker A: No honking a horn. No one's upset. Everyone is just dead. Still stopped because.
[00:04:00] Speaker C: Because they're all fucking.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: The first three cars are not paying attention to anything that's happening around them. And it just like, for me, at that moment, I was like, going, that. That infuriates me on so many levels. I'm glad I'm in the right lane. And so as I passed, I gave a little.
Little. Little friendly, like, honk, honk, you know,
[00:04:18] Speaker C: and she just stayed. They.
[00:04:19] Speaker A: I'M sorry. She looked up like she was mad at me because I'm not going.
[00:04:22] Speaker C: Because you were bothering them.
[00:04:24] Speaker A: And then she looks up and she goes.
And then she slowed.
[00:04:28] Speaker C: She went. She had to finish that, that, that, that. That reel about. Yeah, women's hair. I get it.
[00:04:34] Speaker A: Any hair.
[00:04:35] Speaker C: Any.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Could be any hair. Anyway, so me is distract. Like, intentionally distracted drivers.
[00:04:41] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:04:41] Speaker A: Like, put the phone down. It's not yours.
[00:04:43] Speaker C: Is that okay?
[00:04:44] Speaker A: You know, don't, Don't. You don't need to eat while you drive. You don't have to put on makeup while you drive. Just drive.
[00:04:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:04:51] Speaker A: Like, that's all you need to do is drive. Okay, I'll go next, Bill, you go.
[00:04:54] Speaker C: Because mine is. We do a lot of highway driving. When I'm traveling, I drive. I end up renting a vehicle more than then, you know.
[00:05:00] Speaker A: Do you wish you had a CB that you could have a handle?
[00:05:03] Speaker C: Yes, I do, actually.
[00:05:04] Speaker A: Ginger cookie, would that be your handle?
[00:05:06] Speaker D: Red Q tip.
[00:05:07] Speaker A: Red Q tip.
[00:05:08] Speaker C: I love you guys. I love you guys. And I'm gonna accept both of those.
[00:05:12] Speaker A: Red for a red Q tip. Over and out.
[00:05:16] Speaker C: So I think for me, these guys, I feel like I'm being bullied right now. I don't know how to do this. But in love. In the love of Jesus.
[00:05:23] Speaker A: In the love of Jesus.
[00:05:24] Speaker C: So I think for me, it's. It's when people drive on the left side of the road.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: Oh, stop and stop.
[00:05:31] Speaker C: But they. They do, like, not even the speed limit. Like, they're like, it's a 65 mile an hour, and they're doing 63.
[00:05:37] Speaker A: Oh.
[00:05:38] Speaker C: And they're like, I'm just. I'm obeying the law. And I'm like. And I just wish. I wish I had this, like, forklift tool in my car that would just lift and kind of flip over or maybe just lift them to the next lane gently. I don't know. But anyways, I can't stand it. And I'm. And I'm always like. And that's. I work on it. Because even with. Even with, like, my wife, she's like, why are you so mad? I'm like, I just feel like you're ruining it for everybody. Car. Okay, everybody.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: So confession moment. And I need to know, do you guys do this as well where you. You're in the left lane. The person is going exceptionally slow. You're finally able to pass them in the right lane, which is the lane you should not be passing them in.
[00:06:13] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:06:14] Speaker A: But you decide to, like, pass them as fast as you can. To get back in the left lane as quick as you can.
[00:06:20] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:21] Speaker A: To, like, yell at them through non verbals.
[00:06:23] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:24] Speaker A: You're.
[00:06:24] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:25] Speaker A: You're in the wrong lane.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:06:26] Speaker A: Do you do that?
[00:06:27] Speaker C: I scare my wife to death every time I do that.
[00:06:29] Speaker A: Yeah. Like, I become indie car driver and I'm like, oh, I can't.
Yeah, I'm with you, Kyle.
[00:06:35] Speaker C: What about you, Kyle?
[00:06:36] Speaker A: Bring us joy.
[00:06:37] Speaker D: Usually I'll get like, I have a certain type of vehicle that if I get right on their rear end. Oh, they get very scared.
[00:06:46] Speaker A: Well, you know when you have. When you have a Jeep. Yeah.
[00:06:50] Speaker D: And if it's night.
[00:06:52] Speaker A: Oh, your headlights are right in there.
[00:06:54] Speaker D: No, I've got all kinds of different lights anyway.
[00:06:57] Speaker C: Let's get on the lights.
[00:06:59] Speaker A: It's not called the Punisher for a reason.
That Jeep is the Punisher. Because I will shine every light in the sun on you.
[00:07:06] Speaker D: I'll take all the rest because number one. And that's my number one pet peeve. Number two is my okay. But people understand that you're driving a car and that everybody else is around you.
[00:07:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:18] Speaker D: Okay. Learn the zipper rule.
[00:07:21] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:07:21] Speaker D: One, learn that when you turn a turn signal on, it isn't, hey, I'm going. It means, hey, I'd like to go.
[00:07:29] Speaker A: Yes, yes, yes.
[00:07:31] Speaker D: All these things. Just understand if everybody would be a cordial driver, there wouldn't be any problems.
[00:07:37] Speaker C: Exactly.
[00:07:38] Speaker D: Own freaking world.
[00:07:39] Speaker A: Drive like me. That's what I'm saying. Being a cordial driver is driving like me with the rules that I understand them to be. The zipper rule. I. I've never heard that before. I have, but as soon as you said it, I'm like, absolutely. And when it's working, it's like joy. Everyone's like, singing. There's angels floating around. And when one guy decides to be left car, two right cars, left car, it's like, literally, you're seeing World War III break out.
[00:08:07] Speaker D: At that moment is when you have, like, it happens a lot on ramps where you're going like, these big ramps and you're coming down and it goes from three lanes to two, and everybody. It goes down to one, and everybody's lined up. And then you got these three guys coming down to get by everybody all the way to the front.
[00:08:21] Speaker C: Oh, good gracious.
[00:08:22] Speaker D: Because they're more important than everybody.
[00:08:24] Speaker A: Well, and I'm glad it's only us. Like, I know the guys.
[00:08:27] Speaker C: No one else listening this.
[00:08:28] Speaker A: You guys have done the hard work of the soul. You have repaired yourself, and you are. You are litter. You're like Mary Poppins in the driving world. You just, you know, spoonful of sugar. Let's just go. Everything's great.
[00:08:40] Speaker C: So thanks for letting us process.
We're done for the day. You guys have a great day. We've kind of just worked out all of our frustration. But, man, why don't you introduce our guest, man, we are so excited to have John Smith Baker, who fathers. Thank you so much.
We're so glad to have you on. Thanks for letting us process that, John. We really need to get that out of our system. You know how that goes.
[00:09:02] Speaker B: Well, thanks for having me, guys. Great to be here. Appreciate all you guys do.
[00:09:06] Speaker C: What about you, John? So if you had a driving. It's like ask the question again because I.
Okay.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: What do you see other people do that just drives you crazy on the road?
[00:09:16] Speaker C: What about, what about you?
[00:09:18] Speaker B: It's driving slow in left hand lane, not getting over.
[00:09:21] Speaker C: Oh, man, that's us. We're there. We're there.
[00:09:24] Speaker A: We're there. Like so another story because I have.
[00:09:28] Speaker C: Okay. Yes.
Welcome to my world, John. I'm sorry.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: My son, he's 17 years old and we're on a road trip and he's driving the car for a while and I love it.
[00:09:39] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:09:39] Speaker A: And he's in the left hand lane and I see two cars pass on the right and my eye starts twitching, right?
And I turned to him, I was like, like, as a man, if a guy passes you on the right in your left hand, like, you should feel completely emasculated. Like, you should go shave my legs. I should grow my hair long.
Anyway, not saying there's a gender issue here, but I'm like, we are working
[00:10:07] Speaker C: everything out today, aren't we?
[00:10:08] Speaker A: I'm like, you like, like, oh. And he's like, okay, dad. And I'm like, you don't understand how, like disappointed in yourself you should be
[00:10:17] Speaker C: at this moment beating your son. Oh, John, I'm so sorry. Thank you so much.
[00:10:22] Speaker A: John. Back to you. Back to you, the guest.
[00:10:24] Speaker B: I'm with you guys. I'm with you guys.
[00:10:27] Speaker C: I love that we can feel this, like, synergy of frustration in this. But John, we want, you know, as I, as we came across your, your ministry, man, I wanted to, to share that with our listeners, with our viewers, share a little bit about, about yourself, how you started it, what it all, you know, kind of the, all the, all the details, if you will, about fathers in the field as well as your other ministry that you have.
[00:10:47] Speaker B: Yeah, well, that's a long story. So I'll make it briefer than it is, but I got saved. When I was 40 years old.
I was driving around on Friday night, late at night, meeting my uncle to go fishing.
And this is one man that kind of stood up in my life. But, you know, scrambling after work, you know, all the things we do as men to try and go have some fun.
And God got a hold of me, had a road to Damascus experience, pulled my truck over, got on my hands and knees, and begged for God's forgiveness for all the horrible sins in my life. And I was 40 years old, and, wow, I so easily gave up all those sins. But then I heard the Heavenly Father. Didn't know how to explain it at the time, but I heard the Heavenly Father say to me, john, now you need to forgive your earthly father for abandoning you.
[00:11:41] Speaker C: Oh.
[00:11:42] Speaker B: And, you know, that was.
I come to find out that was the deepest of my sins.
The unforgiveness of a father who abandoned his post. And that's a sin I didn't want to give up. And then obviously, as you mature, you realize unrepentant sin is. Is bad and. And unforgiveness is a sin.
So when I did say, okay, and I forgave my dad, that's when I felt I was born again. That's when the Spirit entered me. That's when I knew that I was a new creation. And. And that's where the journey began. I went home, wrote a letter to my dad. What you did was terrible, mattered greatly in my life, but through the power of Christ, I have forgiven you.
And I'd like to share the gospel with you so maybe we could spend eternity together since we've had no time on Earth.
And then, you know, he didn't. He got it. And just the blame game, you know, between mom and dad and all that stuff, took zero responsibility. And for creating a new family and leaving my sister and me behind.
[00:12:49] Speaker C: Wow.
[00:12:50] Speaker B: And then shortly thereafter, you know, practically, I was living a good life, running a business and making more money. I thought I would dream of living in Wyoming, God's country, getting a hunt around the world and travel and have a nice piece of land, and with the river going through it and having horses and just living a good life. But God got ahold of me about a year later and said, I want you to give up the world. Start a ministry called Fathers in the Field and go around the nation and alive and wake and convict the local church that they need to fulfill this biblical mandate to defend the cause of the fatherless. And so 20 years ago, I gave up the world, sold everything and jumped in scared to death. But God has been gracious and good and, and so I've been doing this 20 years now. We're in over 38 states and we've been engaged with over 500 churches. And we have six other full time missionaries like myself knocking on church's doors and engaging men to be mentor fathers. And so, yeah, God's been good. And given part B of this, given all the success and the impact we've had in the local churches, all these pastors were coming to me and saying, man, we see the impact you're having on these fatherless boys lives. But we have so many men who are, who are on the sideline in church.
[00:14:13] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:14:13] Speaker B: Who have not dealt with this issue.
[00:14:16] Speaker C: Yep, yep.
[00:14:17] Speaker B: What can you do for us to help them? And so that was the genesis of man enough to forgive. It's basically the same curriculum I wrote for fatherless boys, but I put it in a man's language and confronted men with the sin of unforgiveness and how to deal with their past so that they can live in victory and they can be the man God intended them to be. And so now this is taking off around the nation and men's groups and personal studies. And so God's been good and I'm glad I got to play a small part in it.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Dude, I love the story and I love the fact that God was so patient and got you at just the right time because of 40 years of history in life, how he's been able to leverage that and redeem that to make a big impact. And I think what you and your ministry is really tapping on is I think that the church kind of does an okay job of calling out behavior, sins. Right.
And you know, don't do pornography, don't cheat on your wife, those kind of big things. But what you see with Jesus, when he went to the Sermon on the Mount, he went back and went to the root sin, right. He said, you think lust is just sleeping with a woman? It isn't. It's having something wrong in your heart. You think, you know, you think killing someone is just putting a knife in their heart. No, no, no. You understand there's something wrong with your heart. And I love the fact that, that that's the message you're bringing is like, hey, gentlemen like you, you could have a good marriage, you could have a good family, but there's a root thing in your heart that if you don't address that, whether it be wounds from your father, wounds from your childhood, stuff that we talked about two, three weeks ago, a little bit.
And how that's continuing to affect your growth is going to plateau because God has something beyond that but can't get there with you if you continue to hold on to that resentment, that hurt and that pain. Dude, thank you for doing that mission and ministry, because we desperately need. I think a lot of pastors don't even know how to begin to address it because they've never walked that journey themselves.
[00:16:18] Speaker C: Yeah, absolutely.
[00:16:19] Speaker B: Well, what pastors finally are waking up to when I talk, their church is being overwhelmed with all the symptoms of fatherlessness.
[00:16:29] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:16:29] Speaker B: Workaholicism, divorce, pornography, depression, you know, you name it. Even the gender identity issue. It's all because of the brokenness of family. And you don't have a masculine man shepherding these boys into manhood.
[00:16:47] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:47] Speaker C: Yep, Yep. No, I get it now. Man, I almost want to go back just for a second, because you said, man, I had a Damascus Road experience.
[00:16:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:16:56] Speaker C: How did that start? Did somebody impact you? Did you have a conversation? How did that all happen?
[00:17:01] Speaker B: Well, I.
I believe it was really my mom, who.
[00:17:05] Speaker C: Who, awesome.
[00:17:07] Speaker B: Always claimed to be a Christian, but lived a very chaotic life and made a lot of decisions like most single moms do, out of survival.
[00:17:15] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:16] Speaker B: And desperation. So a lot of, you know, a couple different bad stepdads in my life, but, you know, so I, you know, I think it was her faithful prayers and. But the one thing. Because I get asked that a lot, you know, on the road to the masses experience, I. I always believed in God.
A God.
[00:17:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:17:38] Speaker B: But, you know, because of the Bible stories, my mom would share with me or take me to church on Christmas or Easter or whatever, in chaos and.
But obviously I didn't have a personal relationship. I hadn't. I haven't bent a knee, I haven't repented, and I haven't, you know, done all the things that require to have that relationship, that saving relationship. But I, you know, when I was running. Running my business, you know, up there, we always talk about not bringing up politics or religion, you know, the things that secular people say in business because you didn't want it to affect your business. But we used to take clients out, big clients out fishing in Wyoming, fly fishing on these beautiful spots. And we would camp alongside the river and we do hunting trips as well. But we were camping one evening alongside the Snake River. It was just beautiful. And one of our customers from the east coast, there were about 12 of us around the campfire from different parts of the world, you know, and he started going around the campfire and saying, you know, is basically mocking God and how ridiculous God is. And he was going around the campfire and actually pointing at people and making them say, do they believe in God or not?
[00:18:51] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:18:52] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and I remember that and it got to me and he asked me and I said, yes, I do.
And, and that's the only thing I can point to. And you know, my type A personality, I, I, I can only imagine God said, well, if that's the case, let's get busy.
[00:19:08] Speaker C: Yes.
[00:19:10] Speaker B: And shortly after is when I, when I bent the knee to him on that road.
[00:19:13] Speaker C: So that's awesome.
[00:19:15] Speaker A: This complete tangent, this is where the spirit. But you mentioned a campfire. And I think there is something holy and divine and sacred with a campfire. And when guys have a chance to sit around the campfire and what I realize in our culture is most of us run at a pace where we don't have campfire time. And so with you and your mission and ministry, pre and post Damascus experience.
What, what, this is such a silly question, but like, what's the power of that campfire? What, what is it about a campfire that is so powerful that allows guys to have conversations that they would never otherwise have?
[00:19:52] Speaker B: Yeah, it's a great thing. I, I think it's just settle in your mind and be able to be a little quiet and hear the stillness of the Lord.
That's how I see it.
[00:20:09] Speaker C: So with your ministry, because you go into churches, what does it look like when you work with the church? Like, when you work with a group, do you have a study? Do you walk in and say, hey, we're going to do like a retreat, like share a little bit about how you impact the churches and help those men come along, help those boys find healing and those men come alive?
[00:20:25] Speaker B: Yeah, that's what sets our ministry apart. You know, we're about the depth of the heart, not a broad net. So when we go into church, first thing we do is we sit down with the senior pastor. We won't even, you know, start with the church unless we meet with the senior pastor because he's the head shepherd. And, and we talk about the biblical mandate of defending the cause of the fatherless and how it's mentioned over 110 times in the Bible, you know, and how important it is the most angry God gotten as a people is over this issue when they were giving them lip service and how they're the most vulnerable in a society.
And then we talk about the practical aspects of, you know, the symptoms of fatherlessness within their church. And they get it. And then we say, hey, you know, the United States of America leads the world. If you completely believe that leads the world in fatherlessness.
Single.
[00:21:19] Speaker C: Yep. Yeah.
[00:21:21] Speaker B: Homes and more kids are being born out of wedlock now that than within wedlock. I mean, it is a mess.
So, you know, the family is God's small church, so there's grave consequences. And Pastor Laurie said it best.
The family can survive without the nation, but the nation cannot survive without the family.
[00:21:40] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:21:41] Speaker B: Yeah, do that preachers profound thing that's going on. And sadly, the tsunami wave is on its way to our nation because we're in the third generation of this fatherlessness epidemic. And the church needs to come to grip with, grips with it. And they need to define fatherlessness like God does.
And this is where I, you know, I, I, you know, riled some feathers. But divorce causes fatherlessness. And men say, well, I didn't abandon my son. I said, well, I. This has nothing to do with love.
But you cannot fulfill the roles of fatherhood. And that's what we talk about. Man enough to forgive. You cannot fulfill the roles of fatherhood unless you're in the home.
And that, that is the threshold. When you walk out that door and you cross that threshold, there are fatherhood wounds because you cannot fulfill the roles that God gave fathers to be the pastor, provider, and protector if you're not in the home.
And so I tell men all the time, that has nothing to do with love. I'm not saying you don't love your children, but we have to understand the wound that's created in these children that's driving them batty.
And most of them are rebelling in the society. The others have given up and are addicted to drugs and pornography and basically have waved the, the white flag of surrender. And, and so when every time I get try to get in front of men, I said, man, listen to me. God made men different than women. Different roles. They love them both equally. But men were born for a glorious, glorious purpose in God's kingdom, to be the pastor, provider, and protector. Do not believe the lies of this world. We are not the same.
You are to stand out. And God gave us a responsibility to pass on truth through the small church, the family.
And when that's broken, there's grave consequences. And all these children in churches sitting in the broken family, and the church ignores them because they're afraid to piss off the families in the church.
[00:23:48] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:23:49] Speaker B: Because there's so Much divorce in the church.
[00:23:51] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:23:52] Speaker B: But I was called to be an advocate for these voiceless children that are wondering why they are hurt, why they are wounded so deeply. And nobody's talking about it.
[00:24:04] Speaker A: So first off, thank you very much for, for being faithful to that, because my heart is burning as you're talking about it, because I know it's like, it's at its core true. And it's so counterculture, which you're alluding to as well. So my question to you is this. Let's say there's a guy listening to this podcast and he's gone through the divorce. Maybe it's three or four years deep into a divorce, and in his heart has been set on fire. He's like, man, I have shirked my responsibility. Yes, I've gone to the baseball games. Yeah, I've had my weekends and my holidays with him. But I want to.
I want to be as best as I can from this distance, a true father figure to my kids.
So the hurts that they experience are minimized. What advice would you give to that man that says, hey, you're divorced, okay? You can't go back in time. It is what it is. But this is what it looks like to be a man in the field and to get after your boys, get after your girls, and get after them in such a way that they are prepared for the world that is to come.
[00:24:56] Speaker C: It's a good question.
[00:24:57] Speaker B: It's a great question. So buckle up.
[00:24:59] Speaker A: Okay?
[00:25:02] Speaker B: It's a great question, but this is the heart of the question.
First of all, big picture, God is a God of redemption and forgiveness and grace and mercy. He knows we live in a broken world. Okay, so you're not beyond repair. The relationship is not beyond.
[00:25:19] Speaker C: Amen.
[00:25:21] Speaker B: But we have to realize the consequence of brokenness.
So as I read the Bible and I'm pretty sure I'm correct, marriage is on the man's shoulder. 110% don't believe the lies that it's 50, 50.
The headship role was given to men. So the responsibility for marriage starts with you as a man, who you pick to be the future mother of your children starts there.
Choose wisely. Follow God's pattern for a holy. Honoring God, honoring marriage. Do not be unequally yoked. Do not have sex out of marriage. All those things that dishonor God and that marriage cannot be blessed unless there is forgiveness and repentance of sin.
Secondly, once the cup of marriage is broken, a father, if you want to start the process, should go to each of their children.
I would say even to the ex wife and apologize to them and say I'm sorry that you have to experience this brokenness on my watch when it was my responsibility and ask them for forgiveness. And that is the best witness you will ever give a fatherless child from a broken marriage of Christ. You humbling yourself say please forgive me, please.
[00:26:54] Speaker A: It's the flipping of the prodigal son in the sense that you're the son going back to your kids, going, I have sinned against you and against God and whatever this looks like moving forward, I want to make it as great as it possibly can be. But I agree with you, man. That humility to go in and owning it, you know, which I think is another unique calling that God has given the heart of man to be men who are strong enough, broad enough shoulders to own the mistake, own the sins, own the hurts. And to say we can forge through this, it's going to take time. I'm still going to make mistakes. But. But the preferred future, the preferred known legacy, if you will, is so great that I'm willing to go in the muck, in the mire with you and take all of the hate and all of the anger that you've stored up against me, give it to me like
[00:27:44] Speaker C: throw it on me.
[00:27:45] Speaker A: And then let's start with that new clean slate of saying I am sorry. You're right, you're right, you're right. All of it. You're right.
I'm sorry.
Let's move forward from this point. Dude, that's huge.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: I mean I love it because the scriptures just clearly you said with the mouth, confession is made into healing. There's something about going back.
[00:28:02] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:02] Speaker C: To that, to that boy, whether he's 8 or he's 47. Yes, I'm sorry. Yes, I screwed this up. That there's something powerful about a dad. I mean we talk about all the time here, the value of the voice of a father. That's why man, the constant attack from the enemy about God the Father. Because if we, if we put that, that situation of. Well, no, my earthly father was abusive, therefore God is.
[00:28:24] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:25] Speaker C: If we can destroy that. I mean imagine if guys, if you're out there, I mean, I love what John has to say. Please, we are going to put a link to his, to his ministry in it. Because I believe there's a lot of fatherless dads need to walk through this type of curriculum.
[00:28:37] Speaker A: 100%. Yes.
[00:28:38] Speaker C: But there's something about saying just getting there today and calling. Don't just send a text Call or meet them face to face and say I'm sorry. We've said that more than once. The most powerful words you can say to your kids are I'm sorry.
[00:28:49] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:49] Speaker C: And moving forward. I love it, John. I love it. I love it.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I just. On that, you know, we, as men, we got to get our pride out of the way and realize we're not perfect.
[00:28:59] Speaker A: That.
[00:28:59] Speaker B: That. That we're gonna sin. What God wants us to be perfect at or try to be perfect at is asking for forgiveness from our family.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:29:09] Speaker B: And that we can. And what a great witness and a great. If you want to talk about a known legacy, be known as a dad that's asked your kids and your wife for forgiveness.
[00:29:18] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: And solid.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: And here's the other thing. There's no. Unless you married a complete psychopath woman, which happens. No woman that does not want to be made. No godly woman that does not want to be married to a man that strives to love her like Christ loves his bride.
[00:29:42] Speaker D: Correct?
[00:29:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
And that is sacrificial love.
And that is leading. That is doing the hard stuff and being the pastor, provider, and protector. So think about that. Men take the responsibility. Do not minimize it.
Do not. Your children need to hear, it's not your fault.
It's not your fault. Because fathers, children believe it's their fault. And the last thing I'll say, just so I don't forget it and we move on, is believers, adopted children of God. Hear me, forgiveness is a command.
It is a command.
[00:30:23] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:24] Speaker B: But also hear me, there is a difference between forgiveness and reconciliation.
Because people who come from an abusive relationship, the most horrible stuff you can. You can imagine. We are not saying you have to have a relationship with that person.
[00:30:43] Speaker A: Right.
[00:30:44] Speaker B: You have. But you are, as a child of God, you. You have to forgive them.
[00:30:49] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:30:51] Speaker B: And. And that is what God calls us to do. Talk about a countercultural command.
And they say, well, you don't understand Job, John. And I say all the time, you're right. I don't understand.
[00:31:02] Speaker A: But God understands, right?
[00:31:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:06] Speaker B: So just. Just follow God's heart.
[00:31:08] Speaker A: It's a command.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: It's not about our feelings. But don't get reconciliation confused that prevents so many from offering forgiveness.
[00:31:16] Speaker C: Oh, I love this.
[00:31:17] Speaker A: I wish you had a clear clarity on your call. I know. I really do, too, had some passion and some wisdom to share. Man, it'd be nice if you had actually sat at the foot of God and had received something.
This is ordinance. This is like. Yeah, this is just ordinance being laid Down. Like, in my mind, I have five people that I'm going to steal this episode from you. I'm going to send directly to it before we release it.
[00:31:37] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:38] Speaker A: Because I'm like, they need to hear this. They need to hear this message.
[00:31:42] Speaker C: I mean, because. Because I love that. Forgiveness is literally a superpower.
[00:31:45] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:31:46] Speaker C: From. From the Father. That literally you are. You. You are engaging in something divine that you can't do on your own. That's what I love you're talking was like, I don't want to do this.
[00:31:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:31:54] Speaker C: I want to remain in bitterness. But because of the Father who forgave me, I'm able to then cast this on you through his power and nothing of my own. Because if it was me, I'd want you to rot.
[00:32:04] Speaker A: Right. And here's, here's the greatest thing. When we think forgiveness is for the other person, God's like, no, no, no. Forgiveness is for you and your heart. It's the healing that happens when that forgiveness is given, like, genuinely given, and it is beyond you. I trust me, forgiving in those hard situations is truly beyond you. And that's why it's the work of the Holy Spirit. And that's why the gift of the Holy Spirit that he's given to you at your baptism is such a gift. Because it's only through the Spirit that allows you to honestly come to the point and say, I forgive him. I forgive my dad for the hurts. I forgive my dad for the abandonment. I forgive my dad.
You know, one of my. One of my dear friends calls his dad. He doesn't even call him dad. He says his. The sperm donor. That's how deep that hurt is. And, And I know he's. He's. He had that forgiveness has to happen.
[00:32:50] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:32:50] Speaker A: You know, how do you move forward with that? It's huge. Huge, John.
[00:32:54] Speaker B: Well, I know I didn't ask your. Answer your question about the structure within the church.
[00:32:59] Speaker A: No, no, no, John, you're fantastic.
[00:33:01] Speaker C: We are getting a good idea of what you do. So we're good.
[00:33:04] Speaker A: Go for it.
[00:33:04] Speaker B: Okay. Good. Yeah. Well, I was just saying, you know, you guys are talking about forgiveness.
Our curriculum. And I, I believe strong in this is.
I believe you. You need to write a forgiveness letter and actually put it in writing and make it official and public.
And part. Part of what was just being talked about is when we go in the third year of the curriculum, we talk about the forgiveness letter. We don't make people write forgiveness letters, but we talk about the importance and why it's so important but one of the first things that, that every follows boy struggles with. What do I. How do I address this letter? Right. Dear sperm donor. Dear S.O.B. dear Abandoner.
[00:33:47] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:33:47] Speaker B: Dear. Dear promise breaker. You know, all those things and so all that needs to be talked about.
And then if your dad is dead or there's no reconciliation possible, whatever, you know, then you give that letter to your wife, your pastor, your buddy, your friend, your disciple or whatever because you make it.
We should proclaim. See, men want to hide. The devil wants us men to hide in shame because of our past hurt. Yeah, but, but we, but we are to live in victory. And men, I want to encourage you, do not let the devil let you live in shame. If it's divorce or, or other kind of sin or whatever, that we all end up with stripes and scars on our bodies.
[00:34:34] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:34:34] Speaker B: And instead of trying to minimize those and hide, we need to point the world to them. Because if we don't, all we're doing is minimizing Christ's death on the cross. And what a shame and what a travesty. Christian. God himself had to die and we try to cover up what he healed. So use not as a badge of honor but, but show the world why Christ had to die on the cross and that you are a new creation. So this, this concept that meant the devil wants men to believe they're out of the game, they're out of the fight because of their past. And, and, and I spend so much of my time trying to encourage and strengthen men. Say no, no, you use those stripes, you're a warrior now for, for Christ because of those scars on you. And, and use it for God's glory and God's kingdom now. And because let's face it, men, so many men, and that's what we started with, are on the sidelines, they're on the injured reserve within church and, and there's few men's at the gate holding the barbarians back.
[00:35:35] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:35] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:36] Speaker B: Make no mistake, the barbarians are at the gate and we need no more godly men.
The gate. That's what we're trying to call men too.
[00:35:44] Speaker A: And that's why our, our theme at Known Legacy is wake up, gear up, and come alive. And I think what John's laying down for us as part of that gearing up is to. Is to be honest with the hurts in the past. Go through that reconciliation process if possible, but definitely go through that forgiveness and, and see what God has in store for you as he brings you to new life in that forgiveness.
[00:36:04] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:36:04] Speaker A: John. What A great conversation this has been. Anything else from you as we move into the infamous Fast five.
[00:36:10] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. One last thing.
There is healing and then there is complete healing. And I just want to leave this with you. There is complete healing.
So I want to share some of you that seem so counterproductive. When I was first healed, first healed salvationally, and then I was healed through my father's abandonment. I forgave him. Right, Right. But now I know I'm completely healed because I thank the Lord now for wanting me to be fatherless and allowing me to the fatherless so I can now serve him.
We have to realize the hurt and pain is from a godly sovereign king almighty.
You were not. You didn't go through the suffering because of chance.
[00:37:04] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:37:04] Speaker B: If we realize what Satan meant for evil, God's going to use for good. I am thankful now that I was fatherless. I am on the other side of healing.
[00:37:17] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:37:17] Speaker B: And I am living in victory because I thank the Lord for giving me perspective so now I can help other fatherless boys. Dude, that's when you know you've been truly healed.
[00:37:27] Speaker A: Dude, that is so beautiful. Because in a generation, two, three generations now of fatherless kids, to have an army of men who have been fully healed by Christ and able to minister to them. Yeah. Huge, huge. Love it.
[00:37:42] Speaker C: Well, it's just this idea that, like, your greatest calling generally can come from your greatest wounding.
[00:37:46] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:37:47] Speaker C: 100%, exactly. No, no. I mean, that's exactly like John. I kind of wish that we were on the same page. Maybe someday we'll figure out.
I love this, brother. I love it. We're gonna. We're definitely gonna put a link in the bottom because I know they have a lot of guys who are dealing with fatherlessness, dealing with brokenness and lack of forgiveness.
[00:38:05] Speaker B: Right.
[00:38:05] Speaker C: And, man, we want to just bring a resource to you guys to help you move forward. Because there's a lot of amazing guys out there just like John, who are in love with Jesus, who want to see men come alive to who they're called to. And that's why I wanted to do this. And so, John, thanks for being on here today.
[00:38:18] Speaker A: Yeah. And gentlemen, I want to encourage you. Be a cycle breaker. That's what John was. By the work of the Spirit in his heart and his life, he broke a cycle.
[00:38:24] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:25] Speaker A: And you are being called to be a cycle breaker. So whatever was done in the past.
[00:38:29] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:38:30] Speaker A: Do not perpetuate. Absolutely. Break a cycle by the grace of Jesus Christ.
[00:38:35] Speaker C: I love it.
[00:38:36] Speaker A: Anyways. Yeah. We could talk for Hours.
[00:38:39] Speaker C: If you're okay, we're going to have you on again at some point. 100. This is a lot of fun and it is great to come.
[00:38:44] Speaker B: Just getting started.
[00:38:45] Speaker C: I know, I know. We're like these. We're seeing our timer run off and we're like, oh, gosh.
But man, this is. This has been great. But John. So as we finish up, we have this thing and stay on after because we'd love to just connect before we. Before we click off. But stay on after. But before we finish, we have our fast five segment right there for us. Yeah, that's.
Sorry about that. The guy. I like it. My ADD kicks in. It's good, you know. So, brother, question number one. If you could tell people to go support a cause or ministry, what would it be and why?
[00:39:16] Speaker B: I would say your local church get plugged in.
Biblical, solid church. Your local church. We are meant to fellowship.
[00:39:25] Speaker C: Awesome. I love it, I love it. Communities. The other side. We haven't even talked about that. We'll have to have you back on for the whole community side of this.
[00:39:31] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:39:32] Speaker C: Because about armor bearers and just spurring each other on the good works. I love it. Love it. So if you could describe legacy with one word or phrase, what would it be?
[00:39:43] Speaker B: A truth teller about God's truth.
[00:39:45] Speaker C: Awesome.
[00:39:46] Speaker B: We have to have more truth tellers.
[00:39:49] Speaker C: Nice, nice.
Number three, if you had to change careers, what would you change it to?
[00:39:57] Speaker B: I always wanted to be a pro athlete, a pro quarterback and just wasn't tall enough, fast enough, arm strength enough. But I had the heart for it. Just nothing else.
[00:40:09] Speaker C: I think I had the heart for
[00:40:10] Speaker A: a lot of things.
[00:40:11] Speaker C: I had the heart but not the waistband, I guess.
Oh, man. Awesome, man. Okay, what is your go to fruit if you had to pick one, go to fruit.
[00:40:23] Speaker B: Blueberries.
[00:40:24] Speaker C: Oh, we haven't had a blueberries yet, dude.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: The antioxidants, I didn't know it was pro oxidant until I had some blueberries and I realized now I'm anti accident.
[00:40:33] Speaker B: The low on the sugar glycemic scale and they have great nutrient value.
[00:40:37] Speaker C: So yes, that's a good call. Good call. I love it. I love it. Okay, number five, what do you want to be remembered by to those closest to you? Yeah, I think I know the answer, but we're going to let you answer anyways.
[00:40:49] Speaker B: A wretched sinner saved by the grace and mercy of God almighty.
[00:40:55] Speaker A: Amen.
[00:40:55] Speaker C: Dude, this has been awesome. John, we love having you on. We'll see you next week and we're
[00:41:03] Speaker A: going to turn this into the John podcast.
[00:41:05] Speaker C: That's what we're going to do.
[00:41:06] Speaker A: Gentlemen, this is, man, first and foremost, I think this is like our 270th
[00:41:11] Speaker C: episode or, I don't know, somewhere in that range.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: I'm just telling you this one is cream of the crop. And so I would encourage you gentlemen, if this is spoken to you or you know, someone as you're listening to this that you know needs to hear this, please share this because they need to be encouraged. They need to know there's hope and they need to have some tools possibly put in their hands to go through this very difficult but ultimate importance journey.
[00:41:36] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean forgiveness. And without sounding like a cliche, it's not a cliche. Forgiveness is possible, but is a Holy Spirit engaged activity that we need to walk in. So, John, thank you for your faith to what you're doing to impact these men. Guys, we're going to put John's links underneath this in all of our notes. And man, we are so grateful to have you on today, brother. Thank you for your time. Guys. Thank you for watching.
Listening. Man, we are so excited. Check out our upcoming men's retreat that we'd love you to be on April 10th through the 12th.
[00:42:06] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:42:06] Speaker C: As well as man follow, make sure you share this with your friends. Follow us on social media. We'd love to get the word out even more, but we need you to do that work. Thank you guys for what you do. Travis, final thoughts.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: God bless you guys. Son of the Living King.
[00:42:19] Speaker C: Have a great week.
[00:42:21] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy podcast. We'd love to hear from you. So email us your questions or comments to infonolegacy.
[00:42:37] Speaker B: Com.
