Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known legacy podcast brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information go to knownlegacy.org now
[00:00:07] Speaker B: here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
[00:00:13] Speaker A: Did you get a stain?
[00:00:15] Speaker B: Nice something something. Nice something something. Good morning, Bill.
[00:00:18] Speaker A: Good morning.
[00:00:19] Speaker B: Morning. Kyle in the corner. Good morning. How's everyone doing?
[00:00:22] Speaker C: Great.
[00:00:22] Speaker A: Good, good, good.
[00:00:23] Speaker B: Excellent. Something's vibrating somewhere.
Anyways, we are so happy that you guys are joining us on KnownLexi today. As always, you can check us out on YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, if you so choose. If you want to find out more information about Bill and his speaking engagements, go to knownlegacy.org and if you want to reach out and connect with us via email, infooownlegacy.org is a great place to make that happen. Anyways, just want to say good morning and welcome to the show. Bill, what do you got for us? Man?
[00:00:51] Speaker A: I'm so glad to have you guys here, man. We are excited to have you be a part of what we're doing. We want to help you wake up, gear up and come alive to who God called you to be correct. Man, it is a perfect overcast day, which in Texas is nice cuz there storms are brewing. It never happens here and especially in May. I feel like we've had a lot of wet weather.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: The El Nino.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Yes, Spanish for the nino.
Yeah, we love it. We. Hey, we are so glad you guys are here.
[00:01:21] Speaker C: Guys.
[00:01:21] Speaker A: Want to let you know about a couple things going on with Known Legacy.
[00:01:23] Speaker B: Yeah, tell us about a adrenaline cup.
[00:01:26] Speaker A: The adrenaline cup. We have a. I was going to start somewhere else. We'll start there. We have a bible study called adrenaline shot. Every Thursday morning at 6:45am It's a call in study we'd love you to be a part of. There's a link below. Listen, we understand what it's like. You're on the road, you're running, you're busy, you don't have time to connect with other guys. This is an easy way for you to connect and be a part of a community. These guys pray for each other, they're for each other and we just challenge each other to man to come alive more to who God's created us to be. So that link's provided below as well as man, if you feel like you're stuck in your journey or you kind of want to know where you are, we have a free guide for you. It's called a wake up guide in 7 Day Reset, you can click that link below and get that for free. Downloaded right to you and it's a great way to kind of say, I want to start things off or get a re. Kick start in my journey as a child of God. We made that specifically for you as well as one more thing. We have a known legacy brotherhood on Facebook. If you still use Facebook, if you still use ink and oil, well, man, we would love to have you as a quill. Yes. On our quill. We'd love to have you be a part of what we're doing with known legacy there. And so we'll put that link below as well. It's a great place to get encouragement, connect, and there's not much good on Facebook. This is good on Facebook.
[00:02:37] Speaker B: So be there. I love it. I love it. And so now, without further ado, because I know we have a great guest and I'm excited about him and the conversation about the heart of the husband.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: And what the impact that can make and how we heal that bad boy. And without further ado, what's the question of the day?
[00:02:52] Speaker A: Question of the day.
[00:02:53] Speaker B: So we had a fun time putting this one together. We. We had a few different iterations, and so this is where we landed. So we're gonna go here, guys.
[00:03:00] Speaker A: Let's do it. Let's do it.
[00:03:02] Speaker B: If you had to listen to only one catalog of music from an artist, and I'm not. I'm not saying any artist. I'm gonna give you three choices.
[00:03:10] Speaker A: Okay, okay. Because we've done, like, an artist thing before, but this is a different one.
[00:03:13] Speaker B: No, no, no. This is a different one. This one. This one's gonna lock you in, put you in a lane, and you gotta make a decision. All right, so the artist is this. Peter Cetera.
[00:03:20] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:21] Speaker B: All right.
Peter Gabriel.
[00:03:24] Speaker A: Okay.
[00:03:25] Speaker B: And the Sledgehammer. All right, And. Or Phil Collins.
Which one of those three artists? If you could only listen to one of their catalogs for the rest of your life, which one would it be?
[00:03:37] Speaker A: I can go first on this one.
[00:03:39] Speaker B: All right.
[00:03:39] Speaker A: Phil Collins.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: Phil Collins? Really?
[00:03:42] Speaker A: Why? Oh, my gosh. I love all of his stuff. I mean, it's just amazing.
[00:03:44] Speaker B: You just want to listen to.
[00:03:47] Speaker A: Well, but, like, he had me. You had me at Genesis. Land of confusion.
[00:03:52] Speaker C: You had me there.
[00:03:54] Speaker A: I love this stuff. It was so good. And then. And then, like, years later, he's out. He's out of, like, nowhere. And all of a sudden, Tarzan comes out. I've never seen the movie, like, banger for Tarzan that you're like, he did
[00:04:06] Speaker B: the whole music score so good.
[00:04:08] Speaker A: So, I mean, for him to, like, resurrect that. I don't mean I've never seen the movie, but I've listened to the. Listen to the soundtrack. So anyways, so, yeah, Phil Collins would be my go to.
[00:04:16] Speaker B: I got Peter Gabriel. I'm going. Peter Gabriel?
[00:04:18] Speaker A: Really? Okay. Yeah.
[00:04:19] Speaker B: Some of his videos and what he did, like, in the early 80s, mid-80s, you know, MTV and how it revolutionized and, you know, in your.
[00:04:27] Speaker A: Your eyes, the light, the heat, your eyes.
[00:04:31] Speaker B: Okay, enough of that. Complete and one of the greatest romantic scenes of cinematography.
[00:04:38] Speaker A: Churches.
He holds up the evolution.
[00:04:42] Speaker B: The speaker over his head.
[00:04:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:04:44] Speaker B: You know? Yeah.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Oh, yeah. And say anything.
[00:04:47] Speaker B: Yes, yes.
Yeah, I could listen to that stuff, but I'll be honest, I have none of it in my current playlists.
[00:04:54] Speaker A: I want to go buy a trench coat now and put that out. Like, just be like, Sarah. Lloyd.
Lloyd. She's like, get inside, idiot.
[00:05:01] Speaker B: What are you gonna do, Lloyd? Well, I don't want to buy anything or sell anything. I don't want to sell anything that's been bought or processed.
[00:05:06] Speaker A: Brilliant.
[00:05:07] Speaker B: Brilliant. Kickboxing. It's a sport of the future.
Anyways, what do you got, Kyle?
[00:05:12] Speaker A: What about you, man?
[00:05:13] Speaker B: I'm gonna go Peter Cetera.
[00:05:15] Speaker A: Oh, we have a triad today. Trifecta.
[00:05:18] Speaker B: Because of all of them.
And the groups are associated with. I'd rather listen to Chicago anytime over Genesis or Peter Gate. Wow. Okay. I mean, I'm not a Chicago fan.
[00:05:31] Speaker A: This was a hard question. There's some. They're really good in all of them.
[00:05:34] Speaker B: 25 or 6 to 4.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: Come on.
[00:05:37] Speaker B: No, no, I see.
[00:05:38] Speaker A: I just. I see.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: I'm not a. I'm not a horns guy. And they were. They're a horn heavy band. I know, I get it.
But just not my. Not. Not my jam. Not my jam, dude.
[00:05:51] Speaker A: I.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: This.
[00:05:52] Speaker A: I think this is like a. We need to earmark this. This is like a time we all chose a separate. This is pretty amazing.
[00:05:58] Speaker B: Well, why don't you introduce us to our guest today?
[00:06:00] Speaker A: Hey, we are so excited to have Paul Harris on this morning with us.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Morning, Paul.
[00:06:06] Speaker A: We are so excited to have you, man. Welcome to the chaos of the Known legacy podcast. We're so excited to have you on today, man. So with further ado, what is. What is your go to when it
[00:06:18] Speaker B: comes to if you had one catalog to listen to out of those three artists? Peter Cetera, Peter Gabriel, Phil Collins.
[00:06:26] Speaker C: But this is. This is easy for me. And it's Peter Cetera all day because Chicago, 1968 to 1978, they're probably. I mean, there's A lot of great rock bands in that era, but I am a horns guy. And so when Peter Cetera had Terry Cath in Chicago, like. But what you might not know is Peter Cetera is an incredible bass player.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: Right. And songwriter.
[00:06:48] Speaker C: Yeah, so, so. But yeah, so I, I love that old Chicago stuff. And of course I met my wife when I was 15 years old and Chicago 19 came out that year and Peter was no longer in the band.
But what I did was like, this is 19, you know, what's one sound like? And so I worked my way back all the way through the catalog. So I'm very familiar with Chicago and Peter's the terrorist. I have to go with Peter Cetera.
[00:07:11] Speaker A: Well, Kyle, you just became Kyle's favorite guest who've ever had.
[00:07:14] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:07:17] Speaker B: All right, all right. I'll have to go back to listen to Old School Chicago and see because I only know like. Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry.
[00:07:24] Speaker C: Inspiration.
[00:07:25] Speaker B: Yeah, I get it.
[00:07:26] Speaker A: No Legacy podcast. A respecter of all musicians.
Man, we're glad to have you on Paul. I'm glad we bumped into you, man. And so as, as we, we checked out your website, checked out who you were, I wanted to hear, hear more about your ministry and your impact to men and fathers and family. Share a little bit about yourself, where you're from and kind of how you got things started.
[00:07:44] Speaker C: Yeah. So I live in Springfield, Missouri area.
Been married. This will be our Cindy and my 25th year of marriage.
[00:07:53] Speaker B: Congratulations.
[00:07:55] Speaker C: Thank you. I'm excited about that. My. I have a 22 year old daughter who just graduated from college and is going to start teaching in the fall.
Have a 19 year old son who has. Not really sure what he's going to do, but he is, he is taking advantage of junior college right now and working. So he's a little like. I'm not sure what I'm going to do. I think I was that way too when I was 19. But yep, so it's there. We were empty nesters for about a week and a half until my son decided he didn't want to live on campus anymore. So.
Yeah. And. And now my, my daughter graduated from college and she moved back home and she's the same. Decided she's going to stay home until she gets married, which we think may happen next year. But I, I'll believe it when I see the ring. But yeah, so I, you know, heart of a husband really started out of failure in my life. Really, you know, I.
So 18 years ago I had an affair and then of course I. My wife some for some reason decided she was going to stay with me.
And I just remember, I just remember saying, God, I don't know where in the Bible it tells me how to be a good husband. And immediately I remembered, love your wife like Christ loves the church. And I can remember even in that moment, crying out, like, what does that even mean? Like, I don't even know what that means.
And almost immediately, he just downloaded this list of what it meant. And then I thought, I'm supposed to write a book. And then of course, I sat down and tried to, and it couldn't happen. And then 11 years later, it just happened, like in two months. And I realized that the life that I had to live that life before I could write about it. So it's been a really long journey. And then a couple years ago, I decided to just take a step of faith and create a business, which now is a nonprofit to support men, to counsel men, to help men get counsel. And then also I do men's retreats in the podcast, of course. So it's just been a. It's really been a life, you know, really my adult life has been spent learning from the Lord and creating this.
[00:10:01] Speaker B: That's. That is fantastic. And again, one of the themes that we come to over and over again on this podcast, and hopefully it's an encouragement to the guys that are listening is this.
Your brokens, your mistakes, and your valleys are often the places that God does the most work.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:10:15] Speaker B: And ultimately will shine the light on him the greatest throughout the rest of your life as you journey through that. And I know those valleys are hard. It had to be brutal to have that conversation with your wife and to have that kind of, you know, that, that, that transparency and building that trust all the way back up. But how good is God and how faithful is he to say, if I'm putting this on your heart, I'm going to do the hard work behind the scenes so that you can do something right. Start a non profit and speak into the hearts and the lives of men. I love that you the. The title of the book is Heart of the Husband. Correct.
[00:10:48] Speaker C: Heart of a husband.
[00:10:49] Speaker B: Heart of a husband. And a heart, as we know, is a muscle.
And there's things that we can do to strengthen the muscle and there's things that we can do to poison the muscle and let atrophy kick in. I would love to know from you and your studies and kind of your journey, what are the traps that guys fall into that allow the heart to become weak and atrophied? I Don't know if that's a word. Is that a word? Atrophied.
[00:11:12] Speaker C: You just made it one.
[00:11:14] Speaker A: It sounds good.
[00:11:15] Speaker B: Copyright Travis Hart. We know what's coming to become atrophied.
Tell me about those poisons that we allow in our hearts and in our lives that we may not even realize the damage it's doing, but it's actually doing a lot of damage.
[00:11:31] Speaker C: Well, I think, you know, over the years, something that I've seen consistently when I sit with men, specifically husbands, and also from my personal experience is that we. We allow frustration to turn into resentment. And then we.
And then the enemy is constantly lying. Like, from the very beginning of time, it was always like, did God really say that? Did he really do this? And so we start questioning whether or not we were even supposed to be married to this person who doesn't treat us the way we want to be treated, who doesn't respond the way that we want them to respond. And so we start telling ourselves, well, she doesn't love me anyway.
[00:12:10] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:12:10] Speaker C: And I did that. You know, that's how I justified having an affair. It's like, well, my wife doesn't want to be married to me anyway. Like, she doesn't talk to me the way I want to be talked to. And. And the journey that the Lord really has taken me on is that to be a husband is really a journey. And to me, denying my needs and my wants, deny myself, take up my cross, follow him. It's really not much different than what it means to be a Jesus follower, because that is the way he loved the church.
[00:12:35] Speaker B: Right, man.
[00:12:37] Speaker A: Well, so share a little bit about the details of the book. Kind of. Kind of what is. Like, what. What you walk through a guy with.
[00:12:44] Speaker C: Yeah. So, you know, whenever I was talking to the Lord after I confessed to. To Cindy that I had had an affair, which, by the way. Yes.
I tell guys all the time, the hardest thing you'll ever do after an affair and a confession is stay together.
It's. It's so much work.
[00:13:06] Speaker A: And.
[00:13:07] Speaker C: And you don't really have any leverage if you're the one who cheated. Right. You're correct. Basically wrong.
So.
[00:13:13] Speaker B: Right.
[00:13:13] Speaker C: So it's.
And so I. I always joke that it takes about eight years for you to heal from that. And that's only because I can remember every year of the anniversary that I had confessed. Things were really hard in our house, and my wife really was having a difficult time. And part of it was that she was mad that I would just pretend like I'm like, I have grace. I'm forgiven. And she's like, I'm not healed.
[00:13:40] Speaker B: And so I have scars, and I'm still hurting.
[00:13:43] Speaker C: Yeah, there might still be wounds. And. And so she. So she wanted me to bring it up. And I'm like, I don't want to bring it up. And so I got to where I was, okay, I'm going to bring it up. So every year I'd be like, hey, how are you doing? And it would turn into chaos for months, just working through the pain. And I can remember eight years.
I said, how are you doing on the anniversary date? And she's like, why you keep asking me that?
And I'm like, well, it's the anniversary. And she's like, I hadn't even thought about it. Oh.
And from that point on, it's really just. It's been.
It's been nothing. But, you know, we have ups and downs. I mean, marriage. I'm married, which. Which means we're going to disagree. But the restoration, the reconciliation, the work of the Lord, I. I saw the fruit of it after eight years of this thing. So.
So the book, you know, like I said, the Lord had kind of. I had asked the Lord, like, what does it mean to love my wife like Christ loves the church? And it was almost immediate. He was like, you know, pray for her. Like, he sets at the. At the right hand of the Father and intercedes. That's something that Jesus does for the church. So what does that look like for my wife if. If he loves me that way?
He took the blame like he died for sins that he didn't commit. What does that look like? When I love my wife, how do I take the blame in my relationship? My wife. Because that's the way he loves me. And so, you know, he gave up his will. You know, he didn't. He. He went to the garden and didn't want. He said, let this cup pass from me. But then before he left, he's like, not my will, but your will be done. And I think oftentimes we fight for what we want. And reality is, Christ is always calling us to a place of lowliness, of a place of submission to him and a place of denying ourselves so that we can be more like Him. And so I don't get it right all the time, but he took me on a really long journey of what it looks like to. To love my wife like Christ loves the church. And that's simply based on how he loves me. Because if I can't understand how he loves me, I won't understand how to love my wife.
[00:15:49] Speaker B: Yeah, dude, I, I.
First off, beautiful. I can tell you've sat at the foot of the father, because those insights don't come natural to a man, you know, and that idea of, you know, to truly love our wives like Christ loves us, to realize the depth of that. I think one of the questions that I have is I know that there's guys that have, whether it be infidelity through an affair or be infidelity through pornography or be an emotional infidelity that they're holding on to, there is a lie that they're listening to that's like, I got it under control first off. And the best course of action is to keep it hidden, because I don't want to bring that damage to the one that I love. Right. I don't want to bring that hurt to the one that I love. So I'm just gonna pretend like it never happened.
[00:16:37] Speaker A: What?
[00:16:37] Speaker B: Would you encourage a guy who's buying that lie? That's like, man, I can just let me keep keeping on, hide it, pretend like it never happened versus the healing that can happen with the. I need to confess this and trust that the Lord can do what, what seems impossible to me at this time. What would you say to that guy who's rat, who's dealing with hiding versus freedom.
[00:16:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:17:00] Speaker C: And I don't know, I know that there's lots of opinions on, on this, but I, I, I trust the scripture. And what the scripture says is this. Confess your sins one to another, that you might be healed.
[00:17:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:17:12] Speaker C: And so.
[00:17:12] Speaker A: Yes, yes.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: And so if you're looking to be healed, you need to confess.
And so the, the first step in being set free or being healed is to confess. So even in the book, I tell men, put the book down right now and go tell your wife. Now. Again, that's not popular with some people who talk about this kind of stuff. Some people say, hey, your wife doesn't need to know that. I feel like that the enemy's always convincing us to hide. Right?
[00:17:38] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:17:39] Speaker B: Yeah. That was Adam and Eve at the beginning.
Yeah, yeah.
[00:17:42] Speaker C: They covered themselves. They hid from their, they hid from the Lord. And, and, and I was listening to, you know, episodes of your show, and I think in one of them, the person was talking about this, you know, that the, you know, Jesus, God, the Father's just wanting to walk with them. He wants to be with us in the cool of the day. He's, he wants to hang out with us. It's always. And the enemy is getting us to react in shame. And so we're scared. Men are scared of how our wife will react. You know what? Sometimes.
Sometimes I've told men to confess, and they do, and it does not work out the way I hoped it would have.
[00:18:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:18:18] Speaker C: But the reality is for them to walk in freedom, they have to confess.
[00:18:23] Speaker A: Yeah, no, that's. No, it's so good. I mean, I think there. But, But I guess, you know, we were talking about this on one of the other podcasts of that, that tension point between guys going, it's still not worth it. And I mean this in a way of like, they're still processing going, no, I'd rather just keep this because Keep the peace.
And I got. I got 20 years to live. I'd rather just like, that's seriously. I mean, as crazy as it sounds, that's the reality.
So again, like, share some of the beauty post even eight years that you're dealing with. Like, share some of that.
[00:18:53] Speaker B: Paint that picture.
[00:18:53] Speaker C: Well, yeah, so I, I think that what I've come to a conclusion of and this. And honestly, guys, it's so funny because, you know, you think, oh, I wrote a book on being a great husband, and people are like, oh, you wrote the book. You got it figured out. And I'm like, no, I actually got set free of something two years ago, you know, and I, and I. And this happened, you know, 18 years ago. And it's. I think, I think that what I've recognized, the, the fruit. The fruit of the work of the Lord in my marriage is really the fruit of the work of the Lord in me.
Because I, I, I try to. We. I say I, we as men, myself included, we always are trying to figure out, like, what is it that my. If my wife would just do this? Because, because my wife knows my worst features. I know her worst features, right? And so I was so focused on praying, it's funny, I wasn't praying for my wife. I was praying about my wife. And, And I was like, you know, lord, do this. Lord, do this. Make her love me the way I want to be loved. Make her interact with me the way that I want to be interacted with. Like, help her. Make her say the things I need to hear to make me feel better. And, And I remember he just was like, now you know how I feel.
Like, like, I want that from you. I want. The relationship that you want from your wife is the relationship that I want from you. You are my bride. I am your bridegroom. And so the fruit. So, So I will say, like, My though we, my wife and I are both first born hard headed individuals.
First born.
[00:20:30] Speaker B: Getting married is hard. Yeah, it's hard rolling right there. It is.
[00:20:34] Speaker C: Marriage and marriages work. I tell everyone, like, are you ready to die to yourself for the rest of your life? Because that's what you're going to do if you're not ready to die to yourself for the rest of your life. Wait, because. And so, so, so now you know, we're, of course we're getting old. My wife's retiring this year. She's been a teacher for 30 years. And so we're really pumped about stepping into that season and congratulations. And we've learned each other's space, we've learned each other's rhythm. I've learned that just because she says something that I don't like, it doesn't mean that she's going to divorce me.
You know, I think oftentimes I'm like, oh no, she still loves me, but she just is reacting in a way that she should. Because before I'd be like, oh, she doesn't love me. I'm gonna go look at porn, I'm gonna go talk to a girl. I'm gonna start, you know, because, because we go, we go lick our wounds, right? And we try to feed, we try to feed the things in ourself that our wife isn't giving to us. But the reality is if we ask, like I love that you said, said feet of the Father. Because the reality is if we just spend time with him, you know, I was talking about the garden of Gethsemane, you know, as I was writing the book, you know, the Lord brought to my heart that moment when Jesus goes into the garden to pray and he enters, you know, asking for the cup to pass for him. And there's something in there that says, and then he went a little bit deeper, he went a little bit further into the garden. And so I think if we spend time going just a little bit deeper, a little bit further into the garden, what happens is we wind up not asking for the cup to be passed, but asking for God's will to be done, not our will to be done. And so the Lord has shifted things in me that has impacted the way my family now reacts. You know, I was thinking about this and it's a sad disappointment. I was, I was thinking about my kids and sometimes my kids tell. My kids are very vocal about my, my shortcomings. Like if I do something wrong, they always tell me, I don't know how your kids are. Maybe you Guys don't make mistakes. But my kids are always like, they're like. And they have no problem telling you the truth.
[00:22:37] Speaker A: Of course.
[00:22:38] Speaker C: And I think that I came to this realization. It was, it was, it's, it's a little bit sad because my kids got raised when I'm still learning all this stuff, and now they're adults, and they unfortunately had to set through the process of me becoming what the Lord has said. And so they're looking, they're kind of like, I don't know if I buy this, like. And so, like, are you really this guy now? Because I remember when I was like, three, you and mom were yelling at each other. I was like, yeah, but we were working through some really hard stuff, you know?
[00:23:08] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:23:09] Speaker C: And so, so, so, yeah, it's.
But I think that the, you know, Cindy and I have truly become, you know, you say I'm married to my best friend, but, but that's absolutely the truth now. I would. There's nowhere I'd rather be than sitting on the couch with her, binge watching the pit.
[00:23:27] Speaker A: That's awesome. That's awesome.
[00:23:29] Speaker B: It's a good, good pop culture reference.
[00:23:31] Speaker A: There you go.
[00:23:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I did that for you.
[00:23:34] Speaker B: Two questions. One, I'm going to start with the second question, and it's how are you guys preparing for this next season of life? Because I do feel like there's a demographic of guys that are listening to this PO Podcast and are on the edge of empty nesting or their kids graduating from high school. And so much of our social connections as men happen through our kids through that high school experience.
So that's the second question. First question is this. We've talked about the poisons that we can allow to seep into our hearts that will affect us. What are some things that you would encourage a guy that's like, man, I got a marriage. It's okay. It's not what it should be. It's not what it needs to be. How do we strengthen the heart of a father or the heart of a husband so that it can be that best friend sitting on the couch with each other watching shows?
[00:24:21] Speaker A: Good question.
[00:24:22] Speaker C: Yeah, I think.
Should we start with the first question or the second question? That was the first question.
[00:24:28] Speaker B: You do whatever you want to do.
[00:24:30] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:24:31] Speaker B: I just said it because my ADD mind is going to let both of those go in about 20 seconds.
[00:24:36] Speaker C: You go wherever you want to say. I'm the same way. Actually, I've already forgot the second question, but I, I, I think that it's funny. What has, what I have found in my relationship with my wife is that what has actually in emboldened us to have this, what I imagine is a closer relationship is actually understanding the space that the other one needs.
[00:25:01] Speaker B: What do you mean by that?
[00:25:03] Speaker C: Well, because I'm, I'm kind of clingy if I'm being honest. My wife, My wife is more like, can you leave me alone and let me read my book?
And, and I took that as she doesn't want to be with me. Right. She would prefer to be in the book than to be with me. So I was highly offended by all this. But when I learned to allow her to have the space that she needs in those moments, then, then there's the moment where she now, okay, now I want to be with you. Now I want to just set with you. Now I just want to go to Barnes and Noble with you. That was kind of like our always our date place. Like I grab a hand of bunch of magazines, she'd grab a book and we just sit there. And so I think, yeah, and I think that, I think that understanding, I think it's really a journey and trying to truly understand each other. And so there's, and also there's things that I don't necessarily love to do.
But again, if I'm denying myself, then I've gotten in the habit of doing it. Like my wife wants to go for a three mile walk every day. I, I hated that. Especially when it's humid in Missouri.
[00:26:10] Speaker B: Right, right.
[00:26:11] Speaker C: But, but, but it got to where she, I would, I started suggesting the walk because I think it was, I actually think it was a control thing. Like if I'm the one suggesting it, then it was my idea, then I don't mind doing it. But, but what happens? She's like, oh wait, now he's suggesting that we go for the walk. You know, that's cute. And, and so, and it just becomes something that we do now. And so I think finding ways to be together.
And again, I spend all my time talking to men, so I don't really propose to tell many women what to do, including my wife.
[00:26:44] Speaker B: Smart man.
[00:26:46] Speaker C: Well, that's a lesson right there. There's the answer. Like just. But, but yeah. So I think that we've, we've found little things that we love to do as we get older, you know, and yes, my identity, and I hate to say it, but my identity was somewhat tied to my relationship, especially with my daughter because she's the oldest and we both are very similar. So she would get up early every morning we'd be coffee buddies. We talk about life and drink coffee and sit on the deck. And that was my morning routine. And so it really did shake me a little bit when she moved away to college because I'm like, oh, man, I lost my morning person. Like, right, Cindy doesn't get up early. Cindy, you know, my son doesn't get up early. And so I did. I definitely had to work through that. Now what's beautiful about this relationship is that now we're moving into a season where we're parenting adults and parenting. I always tell guys, parenting does not get easier, it just gets different.
[00:27:37] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: And so now I have a 22 year old and 19 year old and I feel the weight and stress. Is my son gonna turn out okay?
That doesn't go away.
But then you're like, okay, my daughter graduated from college. Oh, okay. She got a real big girl job, you know, okay, good job, mom. And it's like, okay, now we have one to worry about. And so it is definitely a journey. And I think that I remember sitting on the couch after my daughter's graduation party. And that was high school graduation, so four years ago.
And I remember sitting with Cindy and. And just the party was over. Everyone had left. It was just the two of us.
And I remember saying, now we're going to have to figure out who Paul and Cindy is again.
[00:28:18] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:19] Speaker C: It was always Paul and Cindy. Then it was Paul, Cindy and Emily. Then it's Emily, Cindy, Paul, that it's Peyton, Emily, Cindy, Paul.
[00:28:27] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:28:27] Speaker C: And. But eventually you wind back up with just Paul and Cindy. And so you forget who you are because your kids become everything you do.
And so we have had it. We've had a very intentional journey of figuring out who we are together now.
[00:28:44] Speaker B: That's so huge. And someone said it this way, the woman you married is not the woman you're living with today.
And because she's changed and the guy that she married is not the guy that's living with her today.
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:28:54] Speaker B: And so I think what you're saying, and it's so true, is this continual pursuit of the different layers of what donkey would say, the parfait of the individual. You know, everyone likes parfaits. Everyone likes parfaits.
But. But that continual pursuit of.
You're a different person. Your likes, your dislikes, your. Well, you know, I was at a counselor for a while and one of the things that he talked about is, as you enter into this phase or in this season, discover what it is to date now, because you had, you knew what Dates looked like when you were, you know, before you were married and even when you were before kids, there was a. There was a process that you both enjoyed. Your likes, your dislikes have all changed and now your dates sound like they're at Barnes and Nobles, you know, and sometimes and.
But to rediscover what you both can enjoy together and then invest in those things, whether it be golfing together, whether it be going to Barnes and Nobles or going for walks together or going to the gym together, whatever it is, just never ceasing to pursue them in such a way of new discoveries.
[00:30:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:02] Speaker B: Is that where you're. Yeah, that's what I hear you say.
[00:30:03] Speaker A: I'm. I'm loving this because it sounds like it's not another. It's not a burden. It's the new adventure.
[00:30:09] Speaker B: Right, right, right.
[00:30:10] Speaker A: The new adventure.
[00:30:11] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:30:12] Speaker A: Redis. It's almost like you get to start over and date again with this new person who's been molded by God and these kids. And especially as we continue to pursue the heart of the Lord, it's like it's not a matter of I gotta deal with them for the. Which we've seen that. Oh, yes, there's a lot of people who just are playing the game and it's in it for them. It's. It's harder to get divorced than it is to stay as just co existing.
[00:30:33] Speaker B: So instead of I gotta deal with them, it's. I get to discover them, get to rediscover them. That's a shift. That's a mental shift that could really set guys free.
[00:30:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:30:42] Speaker B: If they had that process or that, that, that idea with their spouse.
[00:30:45] Speaker A: No, I love it. I love it. You know, as I, as I, as we think about this, what are some guardrails that you now have in place?
[00:30:52] Speaker B: Good call.
[00:30:53] Speaker A: To protect from this stuff ever happening again. Like the sin that so easily entangles us.
[00:30:58] Speaker B: Guardrails. Love it.
[00:31:00] Speaker C: Sure. I think that with me personally, so it's, it's interesting again because we, as we all do, we talk to guys, meet with guys, and pornography was never like a thing that gripped me that I was like, oh, I have to have it. But I definitely liked attention from humans, especially women. Like women, you know, I was like, oh man, I like to make them laugh.
I like the attention that I would get. And so early on, you know, I remember trying to figure out like, what is it about me that's. That allowed me to get to this place and, and, and so creating guardrails where.
This is a funny story. I'LL never forget. I was hap. After, After I confessed to Cindy and I don't know, it might have been a year later.
And we were, we even in that season, we were rediscovering each other because we hadn't really done marriage right up to that point. You know, it was almost seven years of marriage. We had two little kids and we really hadn't done marriage. Right. So we're trying to keep our marriage together. And I remember we were out to dinner. We do go to dinner sometimes too. All of our dates are at Barnes and Noble.
[00:32:06] Speaker B: Good, good, good, good, good.
[00:32:08] Speaker A: Occasionally, Occasionally food is involved.
[00:32:11] Speaker C: Right.
[00:32:11] Speaker B: If you got an extra $300 sitting around.
[00:32:13] Speaker A: Exactly.
[00:32:13] Speaker B: You can go out to dinner at Cracker Barrel. Right.
[00:32:16] Speaker C: Inflation.
[00:32:17] Speaker B: Inflation.
[00:32:18] Speaker C: Gosh, no joke.
And so I remember we were, we were. And I'm kind of a, you know, I'm a. I guess I'm a touchy feely person. And, and so we were. Cindy and I were having dinner and the, the waitress came to the table and is like, oh, you know, and I reached up and put my hand on the waitress's arm and just made a comment and then she leaves. And Cindy, she wasn't mad. She was just like. And also, keep in mind at the time, I'm traveling for work.
[00:32:44] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:32:45] Speaker C: I'm out of town a lot.
[00:32:47] Speaker B: And.
[00:32:48] Speaker C: And she's like, do you always put your hand on the waitress?
And I'm like, oh, maybe. Like, I, I don't know. I never think, I never think about it.
And so, and so. But, but the thing is, I think this is, this is gonna. And again, that's just kind of how, how I was. And I had to really start thinking about the way that I interacted with people. You know, am I trying to get a laugh from somebody just because I need that attention? You know, and when someone from the. Because I don't. I don't know what I'm really saying by why. What I'm saying. And so my wife was trying to process that, process that with me. So I. Creating these moments where I go, okay, I'm not gonna. I'm not going to put myself in that position anymore. I'm not going to try to entertain someone of the opposite sex just to get a laugh. Even though my intentions probably were pure, they can always.
The. The enemy is cunning. He comes to kill, steal and destroy.
[00:33:45] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:33:45] Speaker C: And so he's always trying to break up the family unit because it looks so much like our relationship to God. And so there's this constant attack against marriages, against Men against women.
And it often starts. It's a whisper in our ear that leads to a thought in our mind.
And so to be honest, I have just went all in on Cindy being my girl, like being my best friend, being my girl, like you said, rediscovering who she is.
And also just my life, my life has become. Serving her. My life has become.
Because that's who Jesus was. That's who Jesus is. Like a life of, of serving us through his death, through his resurrection. So that's it. It has shifted my entire home. Now I have to make a lot of breakfast, but I mean, I've made a lot of breakfast and coffee over the last 18 years. That's for sure.
[00:34:47] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:34:47] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:34:48] Speaker B: But. But I love that because serving, serving is sacrificial. And I think that's what you're. One of the things you're like. As our posture shifts to serving rather than being served by our spouse, then it begs the question, how do I serve and sacrifice well for them? And it can be little simple things that we are like, this is completely innocent. But if it triggers them or if it is something that they desire, like that is not appropriate in their eyes, then we sacrifice and say, okay, then that's a boundary, that's a guardrail. And I will do everything I can to.
To live in a way that serves you and sacrifices well for you, you know?
[00:35:23] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, I think this person who chose to do life with us.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: This person who chose to birth children and their body to be destroyed by, you know, and then we're like, then, you know, it's like, oh, well, I want something different. You know, it's like, wait a minute. I think, I think you're right. Looking back and having a thankful heart, a guardrail of man even waking up every day and going, man, the things that I'm thankful for. And it may sound physical and maybe even arbitrary to go, I'm going to list off the things that my wife has done for us.
It is a really good way to acknowledge that in the midst of. Yeah. Like I'm hurting her. If I touch a waitress, I'm hurting. If I touch a waitress, is there
[00:36:03] Speaker C: a waitress off the screen?
[00:36:04] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly.
[00:36:07] Speaker B: Little do you know, Paul, we have a producer.
[00:36:12] Speaker A: Exactly. Exactly. We have a coffee person over here.
We have a whole team that takes care of us all day.
[00:36:17] Speaker B: Paul, this conversation has been absolutely fantastic and very life giving. And gentlemen, I would encourage you to pick up that book.
[00:36:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:36:27] Speaker B: And just be encouraged by that. Get some wisdom and insights that he's laying down there. It's been published. I'm sure you can get it on Amazon and definitely do that.
[00:36:37] Speaker A: We will put a link in the.
[00:36:38] Speaker B: We'll. We'll put a link below for you
[00:36:39] Speaker A: to pick that up.
[00:36:40] Speaker B: Is there, Is there. As we wrap up the conversation, is there any final thoughts or any final thought that you want to encourage the guys with?
[00:36:48] Speaker C: I think, you know, I think that what I would love to say to guys, and I'm guessing that most of the men, maybe not everyone, but most of the men who are listening to this podcast are hungry for a relationship with the Lord. Like you're, you're listening to this podcast, this, this podcast because of that.
And, and I would encourage you that then if there was one thing I could tell you to do that will shift the atmosphere in your home, and maybe you're like, man, the atmosphere, my home is so bad. Like, my kids, my wife and I would, I would tell you, and this is not to provide any kind of pressure, but I would tell you that the shift begins with you. And the number one thing I would encourage men to do is pray out loud for your wife. And I add the out loud part because there's a lot of things you won't pray if you're saying it out loud when, where she can hear you. You know, I, like I told you, I used to pray about my wife. God, do this work in her. But when I started saying, God, let her see herself the way that you see her, help her know my heart. A scary prayer for a man is to say, God, let my wife see my heart for her, because you better have the right heart toward her. And I just started praying, God, let her see my heart. Let her see my intentions. Let her see your heart. Let her see your intentions. Let her become everything that you said she is. Help her to believe who you say she is. Help her become the person that she was created to be. Help her to be the mom, you know, support, give her friends that support her. Praying out loud for your wife. Something happens when you, you lay next to your wife. Like, so for me, it's like when I lay down next to my wife, she goes to bed before me, but I always go to bed with her. And then she's like, okay, turn the TV off. I'm going to bed. And I leave. And, but, but, but, but I always pray, you know, those things. I pray those things every time. Like, help her to see who she is. Help her to understand who you say she is. And what happens is your Wife gets to hear the words that you're talking to the creator of the universe about her, too. Like, I'm not just praying. I'm talking to God about you. And I'm asking God, let her see herself. Right? And you know, the Bible says that the power of life and death are in our tongue. And it's like, choose wisely. And so when we say words, they create something, and it may create destruction.
But I wanted to create life. And so speak life over your wife.
And I promise you, there's this crazy thing that happens where the Holy Spirit comes and he begins to shift your home and shift your relationship. The number one thing that I've done to change the relationship with my wife is to pray for her.
[00:39:32] Speaker B: I love it. I love it.
Someone once said, because that's one of the challenges I give to young couples in pre marriage counseling. And one of the wives reflected back, she goes, when he prays out loud, it's the only time I see what's really, or I hear what's really going on in his heart. And gentlemen, if there's nothing else you take away from this podcast, and I hope you take a lot, maybe today, make a commitment in your heart and say, you know what? Today I'm going to pray out loud for my wife and we can start that. And it's going to be awkward at first. I promise you. It's going to be weird at first, but being faithful in that, it will produce fruit that will last beyond your generation. And that's what we're talking about. You know, you want to wake up, you want to gear up, start praying for your wife out loud where she can hear you and, and see what God and the Holy Spirit can do with that.
[00:40:18] Speaker A: I mean, it's the other half of our flesh. It's who we are. So imagine if both sides were strong. Pursu the heart of the Lord. That's amazing.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: So that's awesome.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: I've loved it, man. I love. I love having you on. We will have you on again, Paul, because there's.
[00:40:31] Speaker C: Thank you so much for having me.
[00:40:32] Speaker A: This is just dipping in the well of Paul Harris right now. And so we're excited.
[00:40:36] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:40:37] Speaker A: Of all this. But, man, as we finish up, we have a segment called Fast 5.
[00:40:41] Speaker C: Okay.
[00:40:43] Speaker A: That. Yeah, there we go. And so, Paul, question number one. If you could tell people to go support a cause or a ministry, what would it be?
[00:40:52] Speaker C: Well, I don't know if you guys have heard. There's this. There's this ministry called Known Legacy Ministries.
[00:40:58] Speaker A: I heard it's pretty good.
Yes.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: I promise you, we did not put him up to that.
[00:41:03] Speaker A: I know we didn't.
I'll pay you later, Paul.
[00:41:08] Speaker C: No, I, I, of course, you know, I, I, it would be funny. Heart of a husband is obviously.
[00:41:14] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:41:15] Speaker C: But, but I will say this. Any, any ministry or organization that's committed to helping men and families grow in their relationship with the Lord, which then contributes to growth in their marriage, I'm for.
That's my heart. So, yeah, so a little tongue in cheek. But, but really, that's what I mean. Like I said, I've, I've, I've kept up with you guys for a little bit. And, and that's, and, and I love, I love everything about it. I love the, the fun that you have when it comes to encouraging, man, but I love the depth of where you guys go. And so, even though I was joking a little bit, I mean, I think that definitely what you guys are doing is something that's worth supporting.
[00:41:57] Speaker B: Thanks, Paul.
[00:41:57] Speaker A: Well, we feel the same. I'm so glad that we kind of bumped into you and are now gonna have to do more with you. I mean, that's just. You're stuck with us, man. Yeah, we're stuck. You're stuck with us.
[00:42:06] Speaker C: So, so I'm coming, I'm coming to Dallas next week.
[00:42:09] Speaker A: Let's do it, man. Let's make it happen. Let's make it. If you're ever here, we will buy some, some, Some barbecue. All right, good. Hunt us down. Hunt us down, man. All right, number two, if you could describe legacy in a word or a phrase, what would it be?
[00:42:22] Speaker C: Well, so, like, when you get old like me, you do start thinking about this stuff. Like, you think about, like, who are my kids gonna be? Or, you know, it's, this is gonna sound a little bit morbid, but I don't know if you guys do this, but I, I sometimes sit around and think about, like, who's gonna speak at my funeral? And what would they say? And so I always tell my kids, I'm like, live a life where people are fighting to be the ones that get to speak at your funeral. Like, and so, but, but I think, but I think that for me, like, legacy is simply, like, what remains in others because of how you lived.
Like, I want, I want my kids to be like, man, your grandpa, you know, he would always say this, or he would always love people so well, and, and so, again, I probably think about this way too much, but I do think that's it. I think what, what sticks with people because of how I lived. And, and so that's. To me, that's, that's definitely legacy.
[00:43:19] Speaker B: It's golden.
[00:43:19] Speaker A: I feel like we found like another leg of known legacy over.
[00:43:22] Speaker B: This is awesome.
[00:43:23] Speaker A: And I love this.
I would say more like a heart, maybe not even like a leg. You just made this. Yeah, we're. We're like locked into the same thing, Paul. Love it. Yeah. Awesome. Number three, if you had to change careers, what would it be?
[00:43:35] Speaker C: Well, I think, you know, it's funny. I, I do love what I do. I have a couple. I'm. I actually work in the marketplace and I'm on staff at a church. So I, I love the local church.
I love the marketplace. I think that everyone should understand that you're called to ministry.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:53] Speaker C: That doesn't mean you have to work at a church.
[00:43:56] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:43:56] Speaker C: And so we sometimes would get mixed up on that. So I, I think probably if I, if I could do anything I wanted to do, I probably would go full time coaching. I love strategy. I do a lot of church consulting and help build systems and, and I love doing that. I love counseling pastors and helping the pastors. Pastoring is a hard job. And so I love, like pouring into. To ministry leaders. So I think I probably would just kind of work for myself and go all in on just pouring into people, helping us understand what it means to become a disciple of Jesus, especially when it comes to businesses and churches. And. And then, of course, I would continue doing part of a husband. If I could do heart of a husband full time, that would be killer too.
[00:44:37] Speaker B: That'd be awesome. That's our prayer, man.
[00:44:39] Speaker C: You're.
[00:44:39] Speaker B: You're making an impact. Keep it up.
[00:44:41] Speaker A: I know, I know, man. It's. It's awesome. So, yeah, and you're. And you, you mentioned the pastor thing. It's so important. So many pastors are lonely. They don't have anybody else to lean on. And so.
And I know that you see that and experience that too in you and your ministry, so. Thank you, man. Number four. This is a big one.
What? Fruit?
What is your go to fruit if you had to pick one?
[00:44:59] Speaker C: It's pineapple.
[00:45:01] Speaker A: Pineapple?
[00:45:02] Speaker B: Really?
[00:45:02] Speaker A: Have we had a pineapple yet? No, you are the first. Pineapple.
[00:45:06] Speaker C: I love pineapple.
[00:45:07] Speaker A: That's awesome. Pineapple's good.
[00:45:09] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: I'm allergic on pizza.
[00:45:12] Speaker C: Let me have yours.
[00:45:14] Speaker B: I will give you mine. Look, now, Kyle did ask a big question, and this, this will.
Pineapple on pizza. Is it a go or no go? For you?
[00:45:22] Speaker C: It's a go.
[00:45:23] Speaker A: Oh, here's my go.
[00:45:25] Speaker C: Here's. Here's my.
[00:45:26] Speaker A: Let me. Peter Cetera and Pineapple, right? It's a.
[00:45:30] Speaker C: It's my next book. My next book. Peter Cetera and Pineapple.
[00:45:35] Speaker A: That's awesome.
Horns all the way, baby.
[00:45:38] Speaker C: I love horns. I love horns. Yeah.
[00:45:40] Speaker B: Oh, man.
[00:45:40] Speaker A: All right, number five. Who do you want to be remembered for for by those closest to you? Or what do you want to be remembered for by those closest to you?
[00:45:49] Speaker C: I think. I think faith. I want to be known to have been faithful. I. I think, man, he was really faithful to Jesus. He really loved the Lord. He really loved his wife. Man, no one loved his wife like Paul loved his wife. No one loved his kids. No one was more faithful to his friends. He was a faithful friend. Like I said. I. I'm already dreaming about people fighting to speak at my funeral. So I. I want them to. To say that man was a faithful man. And. And he lived by what he said. And so.
[00:46:20] Speaker B: Amen.
[00:46:20] Speaker C: That. That would be great for me.
[00:46:23] Speaker A: Someday you'll learn to be a life giver. I don't know. Maybe someday you'll figure it out. I don't know.
[00:46:29] Speaker B: We'll.
[00:46:29] Speaker A: We'll be praying for that, too.
[00:46:30] Speaker C: But you have a course to that, though.
[00:46:32] Speaker A: Yeah. Exactly.
How to be a life giver by Paul Harris.
Man, Paul, this has been awesome. We want to have you on again, man. Stay on afterwards. But we would love to, man, let people know. Heart of a husband. Make sure that you go there.
[00:46:46] Speaker B: We're gonna put a link down below.
[00:46:48] Speaker A: Get it if you're in the Missouri. If you're up in there, you need a speaker call. Paul, man, this guy's got a heart for. For people. Even the little bit of time that we've. We have talked. Yes, we. We are melded hearts with you. And so thank you for you being honest. Thank you for all those years ago, stepping into the awkward and confessing. And then thank you for your wife. Tell her thank you for these weirdos, but thank you so much. Yeah, that she stayed in the fight. That's the biggest thing, too. So, Paul, thank you so much, guys. Thank you so much for listening today, being a part of what we're doing. Excited to have Paul on. Make sure you check him out. Also check out our book more than you. We'll put a link down there below.
[00:47:21] Speaker B: Yep.
[00:47:22] Speaker A: But, man, we. This was a good podcast. Travis, final thoughts from you.
[00:47:26] Speaker B: Anything, man. Just thank you so much, Paul, for the journey that you've been on. How God has been faithful with you, how it encourages you as others. And gentlemen, it's time to wake up, gear up and come alive. God bless you all.
[00:47:35] Speaker A: Have a great week.
[00:47:37] Speaker B: Thanks for listening to the no Legacy podcast.
[00:47:40] Speaker A: We'd love to hear from you, so email us your questions or comments to infonolegacy.
Com.
