Boldness or Bold Less??

[00:00:01] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast, brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis. [00:00:15] Speaker B: Good morning, Bill. [00:00:16] Speaker C: Good morning, sir. How are you, man? [00:00:18] Speaker B: I'm. I am. So we just. We just recorded a podcast, one of our longest podcasts. [00:00:22] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:23] Speaker B: And if you haven't listened to it, go back and listen to it. But Jeff and his story was phenomenal. [00:00:28] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:00:29] Speaker B: And. And I'm still kind of exhausted from it. [00:00:32] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, it was good. [00:00:34] Speaker B: Yeah, it was an hour and 20 minutes, I think, and every minute. [00:00:37] Speaker C: And was not exhausted in a bad way. Not like, oh, would this be over? But like still processing. [00:00:42] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:00:42] Speaker C: Everything. [00:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a good way to play. So anyways, welcome to Known Legacy, guys. We're glad that you're here. Good morning. Good morning to you. If you. Man, if you were. You can find us on Facebook, you can find us on Instagram, you can find us on YouTube. And, and as always, if it's something you find, subscribe. So it always shows up in your feed. If you like it, great. If you can share a review, that'd be great. If you can share it with a friend or a buddy, that'd be even better. That's what we want to do. That's why we do what we do to help, guys. Wake up, gear up, and come alive. And so just thank you guys for checking us out and being a part of the conversation today. And. Yeah, Bill. So, yeah. How's life treating you, dude? [00:01:19] Speaker C: Things are good, man. I'm excited. It's a beautiful day. It really is. I mean, like, I keep going back to like, it's a gorgeous day and so grateful to have, to have to have a. Sorry, I'm not a technical man. So is that, Is that better? [00:01:35] Speaker B: Gotcha, gotcha. Keep going, man. Gotta get the camera some, some behind the scenes stuff. So if you're listening on podcast, sorry about that last 30 seconds, but if you're watching video, you know exactly, you. [00:01:43] Speaker C: Know exactly what's going on. You know, now my face is my face in the center. I probably hit it with my finger is probably what happened. I'm not a technical man at all, so. [00:01:52] Speaker B: So here's the question of the day, boys. [00:01:55] Speaker C: Go for it. [00:01:56] Speaker B: No, no, no jingle. [00:01:58] Speaker C: Oh, so hang on a second. [00:02:00] Speaker B: What are we doing here, people? Do you understand the last hour and a half how intense it is? We don't even have the jingle ready. Okay. Okay, gentlemen, welcome to Known Legacy Podcast. We're glad you're here info known legacy.org if you have any questions. And now the question of the day. [00:02:14] Speaker C: Question of the day. [00:02:20] Speaker B: The best part of that whole thing was you looking at me like, what. What am I? What do I need to do? [00:02:24] Speaker A: Go for it. [00:02:25] Speaker C: I don't know what to do. My hands, man. I was going real fast and everything. And I like everything so good. Oh, man. Welcome to two idiots alive. [00:02:36] Speaker B: No legacy who love Jesus. All right. The question of the day. Don't do it again. The question of the day that I have is. Fall is in the air. Fall is all about changing seasons. I think universally it's probably, you know, it's the best season. Let's the beloved season. And if you don't, you're a communist. That's fine. You know, if you think another season's better, you're a communist. Go, go. We have no need for you anyway. [00:02:56] Speaker C: The amber waves of grain. [00:02:58] Speaker B: Correct. They're amber in the fall. Thank you. That's all you need to know. [00:03:01] Speaker C: That's all you need to know. [00:03:01] Speaker B: Changes in the air. I want to know from you guys, what is something you love about fall? Easy. What is something you hate about fall? Maybe a little bit difficult. Maybe a little bit, little, Little challenging for that hate. But I'd wager, bet there's something that we all that's just like, oh, I hate this. [00:03:19] Speaker C: I feel like Kyle's right. Are you ready, Kyle? [00:03:21] Speaker B: I'm ready, Kyle, our producer in the corner. No one puts Kyle in the corner. [00:03:25] Speaker C: No one puts Kyle in the corner. So hungry eyes low T. [00:03:34] Speaker D: Number one thing. College football. [00:03:37] Speaker B: Is that the love? [00:03:38] Speaker D: That's the love. [00:03:39] Speaker B: Oh, yes. Yes. [00:03:41] Speaker D: What I hate. [00:03:41] Speaker C: Okay. [00:03:43] Speaker D: And. And I. I don't hate that there's a school here, but I hate there's a school here because I'm at a dead end. [00:03:53] Speaker C: Yes. Yes. [00:03:54] Speaker D: And when it's 7:30 in the morning, oh, 2:40, it's a line of traffic and I have to get into that line to go anywhere. [00:04:04] Speaker C: You're like, I have to do this. [00:04:05] Speaker D: I have to plan my whole life. I'm not leaving now. I'm waiting 30 minutes exactly. [00:04:09] Speaker B: I. I love school zones, but when I have to get someplace that 20 miles per hour feels like, I'm. I'm literally crawling. [00:04:17] Speaker D: No, you're just getting out into it. [00:04:18] Speaker B: Yes, people are. [00:04:20] Speaker D: They just don't want you out, man. [00:04:22] Speaker B: The. The selfishness of humanity comes forth in the car, drop off and pick up line. My wife's a teacher and she'll say the same thing. She's like, people are idiots. [00:04:31] Speaker C: Yeah, they are. You know, these all about themselves at that point. They got to get to the next thing, and so. [00:04:35] Speaker B: That's a good one. That's a good one. [00:04:36] Speaker C: That is a good one. I'm gonna let you go first, because I, I, I feel like our hate might be the same, but go for it, man. [00:04:42] Speaker B: Well, so I. I love the weather. I love being outside, and it's just nice that you can sit outside all day. You got nice breezes. Sometimes it's from the north, sometimes it's from the south. When I was up north, I would love the. The trees changing and the smell of burning leaves throughout the neighborhood. Oh, some of the best memories in that. That first morning after the northern blows through, and, like, it's crisp in your lungs, and you're like, oh, just. It. It feels good to be alive, you know? That's what I love. [00:05:08] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. [00:05:09] Speaker B: About it. And what I hate is candy corn. I hate those things. I, I. [00:05:13] Speaker D: You said that before. [00:05:14] Speaker C: I'm with you, Brian. [00:05:15] Speaker B: I, I know, I know, I know. We. We have a studio audience here today, and they're a gasp, right? [00:05:21] Speaker C: They're a gasp. [00:05:22] Speaker B: I agree, Travis, but my wife loves candy corns. Absolutely loves them. And there's, like, different kinds of candy corn. [00:05:29] Speaker C: Did you know, fun fact, Satan actually made candy corn? I don't know if you know that. It's in the book of second opinions. It's there. I guarantee it. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Satan's candy. [00:05:38] Speaker C: Satan's candy. [00:05:39] Speaker B: Candy corn. And, yeah, I just. I, I, I. It's waxy, and it's. It's. Yeah, I can't. And then they make the pumpkins. The candy pumpkins. [00:05:48] Speaker C: Yes. [00:05:48] Speaker B: And I'm like, oh, these, like, more, dude. [00:05:51] Speaker C: And then they put. And the thing that I can't stand is when they add peanuts to it, and they're like, mmm, this is a. [00:05:56] Speaker B: Good snack, and we're gonna elevate this. [00:05:58] Speaker C: And I'm like, okay, let's. How can we make this worse? I know. Dry peanuts. [00:06:00] Speaker B: It's like putting a bonfire in hell. It's trying to elevate what's already horrible. [00:06:05] Speaker C: How do I make this better? [00:06:06] Speaker B: I don't put some peanuts in it. [00:06:08] Speaker C: No, you can throw it in the trash. That'd be better. [00:06:10] Speaker B: Oh, nice. [00:06:11] Speaker C: Sounds good. [00:06:12] Speaker B: So, Bill, how about you? So for me, now that we've lost half our money. [00:06:14] Speaker C: I know, I'm sorry. I know. We really. The candy corn issue is really. [00:06:17] Speaker B: Info ononelectricity.org if you want our address and send us bags of candy corn for our wives. That'd be great. [00:06:22] Speaker C: But otherwise y so there's a lot of things I love about the fall. Like super love the smell of like the leaves when they get leave they're on the ground and you can like rub your hands are like a sweet smell is amazing. Love that stuff. So good. I love the fall with. Why are you laughing at me? [00:06:40] Speaker B: You look all Indian. Like take the rub it in your hand. [00:06:44] Speaker D: Never heard of that. [00:06:45] Speaker C: Oh dude. Upstate New York. It's like that crackle walking. So good, so good. [00:06:50] Speaker B: Find a special plant, find it, rub it in your hands, Put it in a little container. [00:06:57] Speaker C: There it is. There it is, man. You know, that's why I come here to get busted on. [00:07:02] Speaker B: I need to steal your time just for a second. [00:07:04] Speaker C: Okay, I got time. [00:07:06] Speaker B: There's something that came to my mind as you were talking about rubbing leaves in your nose. We can't do a fall segment and not have an honest conversation about the glorious gift that God has given us in apple cider donuts. [00:07:20] Speaker C: Well, that was my other thing which was a plug. So for. For you out there, anybody north of the Mason Dixon line, whereas we're calling out to you [email protected] we need you to send us some donuts. And I promise, I promise you if you bring them, we will eat them on the show. [00:07:38] Speaker B: Okay. [00:07:39] Speaker C: So fair. [00:07:40] Speaker B: There's a place out in by Denton. It's Goober's farm, I think is the name of it. Goober's Farm. And you cut down your own Christmas tree and there's like flowers you can harvest during the summertime. They absolutely do apple cider donuts. [00:07:55] Speaker C: No they don't. [00:07:56] Speaker B: They do. And so I think we need to do podcast on the road and get out there and get some apple cider donuts. And just the whole half hours us eating apple cider donuts. [00:08:05] Speaker C: And I think that would be it because we need to test what you're going to send us. Infoownlegacy.org, the Northern Apple cider donuts. Because I do. I miss good apple cider apple cider donuts. The fall movies like this one, I like watching like Rudy and stuff like that. Oh yeah, just those fall movies. I love that. What I can't stand. I'm glad you said candy corn is I can't stand pumpkin spice. What with all that's in me. [00:08:31] Speaker B: The three ladies that were listening to this podcast just shut it off. [00:08:34] Speaker C: They've. They're done. I can't stand it. I feel like it's so over. Like, produced so over. [00:08:40] Speaker D: I'm with you, but it's not the. I like pumpkin spice as a flavor, but I don't like that. It's, like inundated everywhere. [00:08:48] Speaker B: Dude, I saw pumpkin spice ham and I saw pumpkin spice bacon. Why, like, stop, stop. [00:08:54] Speaker C: What is wrong with you? You know, and maybe that's the whole podcast is just the. The negativity of pumpkin spice. [00:09:01] Speaker B: What is wrong on our culture. [00:09:02] Speaker C: I mean, I feel like, oh, my gosh. So anyways, so, yeah, that's probably my. My least favorite thing is pumpkin spice. [00:09:08] Speaker B: So don't mail us a pumpkin spice ham. No, it's not going to be. We're not going to do anything with it. [00:09:12] Speaker C: And I bet you they actually have pumpkin spice candy corn. [00:09:15] Speaker B: Oh, I guarantee they do. They have pumpkin spice every day. [00:09:17] Speaker D: Pumpkin pie spice, pumpkin corn. [00:09:19] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh. [00:09:21] Speaker B: Yeah, no, thank you. [00:09:22] Speaker C: No, no, I just don't. I don't. I don't think so. I know that. [00:09:25] Speaker B: I think when history books talk about the rise and fall of America, there will be an entire chapter in there about the downfall began with Starbucks and pumpkin spice. [00:09:34] Speaker C: Pumpkin spice. That's. There it is. And then, like, Kobe died, and then everything went terrible from that point on. Pumpkin spice, Kobe and the rest of the world. Oh, good grace. Guys, thank you so much for, for watching today. We're so glad to have you on, man. We are excited. We're, you know, man, we are a show that helps men wake up, gear up, and come alive to who God called them to. If you're enjoying this, like we said, share it with your friends. But, man, we, we. You know, as we were talking this week, there was an article that you sent that I really loved that really speaks into the volume of this. I mean, you know, we haven't brought up anything much about Charlie Kirk. I mean, and not that we're just first thing, the timing for us doing these podcasts. And at this point, when the time you listen to it, it's like eight weeks after that, so it almost seems like it's a moot point. But what I would tell you is this article that you sent really spoke to me about the boldness in our society with men. And so, I mean, I'd love to talk a little about that. [00:10:29] Speaker B: Yeah. So again, changing tides. And this guy is a pastor, as best as I can tell, and he was just reflecting on how the culture of church and the focus of our mission and ministry seems to have shifted in the last half decade to decade. Right. So 2017, 2018 and he's using the Charlie Kirk reality of like, here's a guy who didn't go to college, here's a guy who didn't go to seminary. And yet often his gospel proclamation was. Was more effective than all the guys that have gone to seminary and kind of heard the idea of like, hey, to be an effective church, to connect with the unchurch and d. Church you can't have yet you have to be tolerant, you know, you can't be offensive. Like, no offense. You just, you know, I remember Willow Creek when they were in their heyday, you know, their big thing was like the cross was offensive. So we're not gonna have a cross in our worship space, you know, and. Because we don't offend anyone and. And then you have this Charlie Kirk and kind of all the guys that have rallied around that or been birthed through that is like this, like. No, no, no, no, no. The truth, by its very nature, there's an offensive nature to truth because truth is going to offensive effect and collide with what you think is true. And it's going to. You're going to have to come to a reconciliation. Either what I think is true is true, or I'm going to have to wrestle with it, which is conflict and submit to this higher authority of the gospel truth. Yeah, you know, I just thought. So I'm going to read a part of it. [00:11:59] Speaker C: Yeah, go for it. [00:12:00] Speaker B: Kind of get the conversation going. So it goes. And it's by Michael. Clary. Clary, we'll go. Clary. Thank you, Michael. If you're listening, when I think about many of the Christian leaders once I once looked up to, I wonder how many of them are feeling a lot of cognitive dissonance these days. In my seminary, early church planting days, I was taught a model of cultural engagement that emphasized non offensiveness as a ministry. Non negotiable. [00:12:30] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:12:30] Speaker B: Like you cannot be offensive. You have to be very gentle and kind and. And almost nicer than God. If I could put it out there, like this idea of like, you have to be nicer than God. [00:12:39] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:12:40] Speaker B: And he continues on. As I implemented this methodology in my ministry, I found it wholly inadequate for the challenges of real ministry and real life. So I rejected that approach. It took me several years of fully deprogramming my ministry instincts retain myself to be more bold and outspoken. And what I find with that is just my personal. This is very similar to where I'm at right now in this kind of, you know, I have a chance as a church planter to go into A lot of different churches and partner churches. And there's some that are being very bold in the proclamation of grace and forgiveness and the need for forgiveness. And they're kind of coming at it with, with both barrels loaded, so to speak. And then it is such a contrast to other churches where it's very. They'll talk about things, but they won't talk specifically about things. They'll kind of allude to things, but they don't want to overstep that loud. And just like those ministry moments, for me, I'm like, woefully inadequate. Leave empty, don't leave. Challenged or encouraged or really comforted by what the gospel should bring. [00:13:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:13:48] Speaker B: What's been your experience? Because I know you're all over the place as well. [00:13:50] Speaker C: I'm feeling that too. And again, I think it's hard, you know, it's like, because we both come from a, I guess a point of grace. Like we understand when, when churches are like, man, we've got to keep the lights on. We got to do these things. But it's almost like we've moved to that point to where. How do we, how do we toe the line? Because, you know, when you're, when you're in ministry, these people that you're trying to, I guess I'd say convict are also paying your salary. And so there's this moment where a lot of it's like, how do I do that? I think that is a tough subject. In fact, one thing that stuck out to me was he said, we need men of courage and conviction these days. But the evangelical leadership that shaped the last generation of pastors train men to bury their courage. [00:14:31] Speaker B: Yes. [00:14:31] Speaker C: How many men go to seminary and graduate More on fire for Christ? This is not a ripping apart seminary, everybody. So I get that. But I think what it does is this speaks into the heart of a guy who's like, I haven't been to seminary. And I think more than times have I had guys that say, hey, I need you to lead this life group. Well, I don't know enough. [00:14:49] Speaker B: Right. [00:14:49] Speaker C: And I think that's what I really want to hit there is, you know enough. Have you come to know the Lord? You know enough. Have you sought the Lord for wisdom in your marriage? You know enough. And it's this boldness that now I'm seeing this young generation, which I have heard that the largest group of people that are coming back to the church right now are 18 to 24 year old men. [00:15:11] Speaker B: Correct. [00:15:12] Speaker C: That are like, I want to do something, but the problem is I Guess this is the challenging question. What are we delivering on the week in and out to help these guys come alive to who God called them to? [00:15:23] Speaker B: Correct. [00:15:24] Speaker C: Does that make sense? [00:15:24] Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. [00:15:25] Speaker C: And I think that's where my heart goes to. And what really caught me was men of courage and conviction. And I think so many guys that I've journeyed with have walked away and gone, okay, I'll do better next week. Instead of, I'm gonna speak life this week. [00:15:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:15:41] Speaker C: I'm gonna, in the drive in line, I'm gonna share hope however I can. And if that leads to a conversation, awesome. But I'm gonna come alive so much that people are like, what is so different about you? And I don't, I don't necessarily see that in a lot of people who, who are constantly in the 9 to 5 of church. And that's where I felt like I was right. I was in a point of like, man, I've got so much on my plate that I forgot that this was about changing lives for the hope of Jesus. [00:16:08] Speaker B: Well, and I think, does that make sense? [00:16:10] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:10] Speaker B: You do a really good job of explaining the idea of like, there's two sides of this coin of faith. Right. One is God has called us to obedience. And that means that there's things that my flesh wants to engage in that he's calling me to no longer feed. [00:16:22] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. [00:16:23] Speaker B: Whether it be a sexual sin, whether it be a greed sin, whether it be a pride sin that we just talked about for an hour and a half, whatever that is. And he's going to rip that away from you over time. But the other side of that coin that we have forgotten is like, there's something to live for now. There's something to fight for. And often that's stepping into a breach that's going to be uncomfortable. That's going to be stepping into a situation where you, you're proclaiming repentance, not tolerance. [00:16:49] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:16:49] Speaker B: And those two things are opposite. Tolerance is you're doing something that God is against, but for the sake of the like, I don't want to offend you. So what we'll do is we'll change our doctrine of theology to, to affirm you in what you're doing, to be tolerant to you and what you're doing because I'm hoping that somehow you'll find God instead of what God Jesus did is he was this God that love, mercy and grace. This does not give us permission to be abusive, but this gives us permission to say, no, no, no, no, no. That behavior, God has paid for that. It's a moment of repentance, not a moment of tolerance. [00:17:26] Speaker C: Yeah, yeah. You know, I think we forget, you know, so when I was younger, I lived near train tracks. And I mean, I remember they were. Because they would. They would leave, like. Like the train yard was about a quarter of a mile away from my house, if not a little, little bit more. And every time they would be blowing that horn to acknowledge, hey, we're starting. We're going. Get off the tracks. [00:17:44] Speaker B: And. [00:17:45] Speaker C: And somewhere we have kind of looked at tolerance as almost like, believing. Like, hey, if this person's laying on the tracks, we're like, well, I want to tell them, but I want to tell them really gently, and maybe someday I'll let them know, like, right, guys, the train is coming. And for us to not proclaim the truth, for us to not live it so much that they're like, I want to get off the tracks. What you have is so much more life. Instead, we're letting them just stay on the tracks where they get run over. This isn't a matter of us. This is us no longer compromising, but going, no, I'm going to live in such a way that shows people the hope of Jesus, that they're like, what is so different about you that I'm living with the conviction and courage to go, I'm going to love my family so well that I'm going to make these specific choices. Does that make sense? [00:18:27] Speaker B: Absolutely. And I love the word that you used is show. And I think that's the big kicker, where we can proclaim the truth. But if we're not willing to live that truth and show that truth and allow people to see this abundant life that God has given us, it's hollow. It's words. It's just simply words. And that's where I think the church is being called to leave the sanctuary and engage the culture in ways that they may see that we're not rattled by these hard conversations. I, in truth, can stand here and listen to all the accusations. I can listen to all of the hate that would be thrown at me as someone who's bigoted and everything else, but to sit down and say, no, God still loves you. Whatever you're throwing at me, I know I'm just wearing a mask or something that you're fighting, But I just want you to know God is actually for you. He's not against you. And there's not rescue in that lifestyle. There's not rescue in that direction. Rescue is only found in this repentant heart of saying, God, I have been against you and what you have ordered within our culture and within this world. And I want to submit and surrender to you and your lordship. And then to see the peace that comes, to see the forgiveness that comes and see the life transformation that happens in that moment, I think is again, they got to see it. [00:19:42] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:19:42] Speaker B: Not just hear about it, but actually see it. [00:19:44] Speaker C: You know, it reminds me of like I just put like kind of like a medieval times kind of twist. Not like, not the place medieval times, but a medieval kind of moment where man, we have all these guys who have studied and they've learned the word and they know these things. And it's like we're all sitting there in the armory learning how to fight, learning how to wear armor, but never actually going out and fighting it. And right, right now, guys, the call we need is men to go, I'm going to step out and am I going to screw up? Absolutely. Am I going to be misquoted? Yes, I am. I mean everybody I know who knows the Lord gets completely misquoted at some point in their journey. And then they use a snippet of their, their video. And like Cliff Nechdel is one of the guys. [00:20:25] Speaker B: Yes. [00:20:26] Speaker C: And he's. And people misquote him all the time. But you know what he did? He didn't take that and not do anything else. [00:20:32] Speaker B: Right. [00:20:32] Speaker C: Because he knew that the relationship and the person to person he was with, man, they knew who he was. The world needs us to not just sit there and learn more, but to make the phone call to our neighbor, to make the phone call to a buddy at church and go, hey, let's just go out and have a conversation and that person is what matters. Again, the word doesn't return void. It's like we just talked about with, you know, in this last one, you know, with Jeff, if you didn't get a chance or if we're going to do, make sure you that you listen to this one. That God's word doesn't return void. Jeff, in the middle of his journey of all the money, of all the fame, read the Bible not knowing anything about it. That's where it started. If you notice that in Ecclesiastes he read it and he was like, this is all meaningless. [00:21:13] Speaker B: Right. [00:21:14] Speaker C: The word does not return void. So you may share truth with somebody and in that moment they may not take it. And for you to go, I'm now saved. Like, thank God. But know that you're putting a God ordained rock in their shoe by the way that you speak life to them, by the way that you love your family, by the way that the decisions that you make out, I mean, it could be something as crazy. Guys, be this daring when you go out to dinner again with your family in our completely, you know, you know, you know, capitalistic environment that we've got enough money to do that, to ask the waiter how they, how you can pray for them. That might be the little start that you need to go, I'm going to just be bold. That might be where I start. Hey, how can I pray for you? I'm a believer. And see what you're. See what the enemy does in that moment and the lies that you believe. This guy doesn't want to know that. Are you kidding me? People are hopeless without Jesus. And so for us to sit there and go, I'm going to go to another study and I'm going to learn some more. And then guess what? After that, I'm going to go learn some more and do nothing with it. And we have the boldness. We have the only hope in the world and guys, the courage, the conviction to go, if this is really true, I'm going to do it. If not, stop going to church. [00:22:24] Speaker B: I saw an interesting video the other day, and it was this concept. This idea is like there's weight room strong and then there's farmer strong. And farmer strong is always going to be stronger than weight room strong. Because weight room, you're kind of in this isolated, fictitious kind of situation where you're just focusing on one muscle group or whatever. Farmer strong, you got to be strong at all times with all things and you just go without quit. Yeah, right. [00:22:48] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:22:48] Speaker B: And I think that's what we're talking about. Like, like, gentlemen, it's time for us to leave the weight room and to get out and be in the fields. Yeah, just be in the fields and let God work out our faith as we're in the field. And here's the other thing that I would caution against. It has to be motivated by love. Like genuine love. Like the person that is oppressed with transsexuality and their identity issues. We have to love them enough to tell them with grace and mercy the truth of how God created them and how God has so much more for them than their sexual identity. [00:23:24] Speaker C: Right. [00:23:24] Speaker B: We have to be willing to step in, but not out of hate and not out of fear and not out of condemnation, but genuinely saying, like, like I generally, I love you enough that I want eternity for you. [00:23:34] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So I'm going To in this relationship share this with you. I'm not just going to throw lob hand grenades of grace all over the place and then watch stuff blow up and go, ha. I'm. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah. It has to be motivated by this deep sense of love. Like. Like eternity is on the line. [00:23:52] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:23:52] Speaker B: And hope is on the line. And so how do I share with them the truth of the good news of God? Yeah. And let the spirit do what the spirit can do with. With genuine love for them. [00:24:05] Speaker C: You know, I think at this point, we're at a turning point where people are angry. That's not. I didn't mean that people are angry right now. Believers are angry of what happens. And I think a lot of them are in this point. Okay. From the conversations that I've had. So these aren't just an idealistic thing. The con people are angry about wanting to do something. And there's this point of we can be angry and we can look at these people like, I want to, you know, whatever, say this. I want to. I want to build a defense to destroy them. Or we could be angry at the real enemy. [00:24:41] Speaker B: Right. [00:24:42] Speaker C: And say, man, you have deceived these people long enough. Exactly. There's an unseen battle going on that we've forgotten about. And it's come to light that, here's the thing. First and foremost, we're going to be hated. End of story. If you know Jesus, you're gonna be hated. Just come to grips with that. But, man, who are you hated by? And when? I mean this, it's not a matter of go out and be a jerk to people, but to go. There's an enemy who hates me beyond this deceived individual that's in front of me who has believed a slew of lies, whether it's from life experiences, whether it's from church hurt, whether it's from. From just being rejected. I mean, most people, sixth to eighth grade, it's amazing. I feel I talked to who their pain started in. Somewhere in that. That junior high thing. [00:25:25] Speaker B: Yep. [00:25:25] Speaker C: And they've defined that for so long. What if we love someone so much that we could get to hear their story? Yes. And then from take them out to lunch, take them out to. I don't know, food's just awesome for us. Again, apple cider donuts. And so for that, that. That moment to stop and go. I want to just know who you are. [00:25:44] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:25:44] Speaker C: And here's the thing. If you know Jesus, then you have the only hope in the world. John 14:6. I want you to hold on to that, that as you walk into someone who may be able to refute something better than you, may be able to give you all the proof as to why you're wrong for you to just love them. Acts 4:13, it says man. And there were simple, ordinary men. And the only thing the government knew different was that these people had been with Jesus. They didn't have all the answers. They didn't know everything. But they sat with these people and said, I'm going to love you through this. And that's what love looks like. [00:26:15] Speaker B: And the way that Peter puts it, I think it's in 1st Peter 3, 16 or 15 he talks about be ready to give an answer to the questions for the hope that you have. And it's this idea. First off, are we living in such a way that people see hope? [00:26:29] Speaker C: Yeah. [00:26:29] Speaker B: Are we living close enough to people that they would observe hope and then are we open enough that they would ask the question? Right. And then, and then we're able to answer and point them to Jesus? And I think that posture again of, of being willing and ready to answer that question would be ready defense. [00:26:46] Speaker C: Like the fight isn't to win the fight. The fight is to show them Jesus. [00:26:49] Speaker B: Correct. If we can show, that's golden. [00:26:52] Speaker C: If we can show them Jesus through our actions. If we can show them Jesus through going home and going, hey, I'm, I'm like, if you're sitting there going, I'm nervous. How do I do this? Go home and love your wife first. [00:27:02] Speaker B: It's got to start in the house. [00:27:03] Speaker C: Yeah, go home and go home and love your kids. And I don't mean wake up and go, we're going to do a devotion every day for the next three. I didn't say, like, just go love your kids and say, God, how do you love my kids? Help me love my kids that way. Start there, build the muscle of that and then go, God, how do I love my co worker? [00:27:20] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:20] Speaker C: How do I love the person in the takeout line? How do I love the person who gets my coffee? Who's. Who has too many pronouns that I don't know how to understand, but I want to try to understand where that came from. [00:27:31] Speaker B: How do I love the person that's blocking me from getting out of my neighborhood? [00:27:34] Speaker C: Because at 2:40 in the afternoon, how do I love them? [00:27:37] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:37] Speaker C: And I think that's the call to action is to take. I know enough truth, God, with the truth that you've given me, what do I need to do with that now? That's it. [00:27:45] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:27:46] Speaker C: And then start walking in that. That's men of courage. That's men of conviction. [00:27:50] Speaker B: That's waking up, gearing up, and coming alive. [00:27:52] Speaker C: Exactly. And, guys, is what we want for you. So this is where I think you take your anger. This is where I think you take your frustration and go, God, what do I do with this? I know you. What have I done to share you with others? Because if it's really changed me, then I know that this is really going to change everybody else. [00:28:06] Speaker B: Love it. Love it. Thank you, Bill. Great conversation. Kyle, anything you want to add? [00:28:10] Speaker D: No. [00:28:11] Speaker C: Good. [00:28:11] Speaker D: Good job. [00:28:12] Speaker C: All right, guys, do us a favor. If this is impactful to you, share it with a friend. But honestly, start the conversation with us. We want to hear from you. Info known legacy.org we have a lot of resources. If you're like, I don't know what to do, that's why we created more than you and the more than you book study. We want you to take that for free and go and invite a friend into this journey. [00:28:33] Speaker B: Yes. [00:28:33] Speaker C: Because, guys, we're just unplugging people from the matrix. The scripture says that we're ministers of reconciliation. Yes, Ministers of rescue. We get to be that person to these people on the constant. Be that person. Have the courage to step up and call some friends and invite them into the journey because they're waiting for you. They're hopeless without that. [00:28:51] Speaker B: Love it. God bless you guys. [00:28:53] Speaker C: Have a great week, guys. [00:28:55] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy podcast. We'd love to hear from you. So email us your questions or comments to [email protected].