Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: You're listening to the Known Legacy Podcast, brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries. For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now here's your hosts, Bill and Travis.
Such a horrible sound. Welcome to Known Legacy Podcast, where Bill slurps coffee into the microphone right as we start.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: That's good. I want to be one of those voice actors. And this is my acting.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: Folgers.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: It's morning in your cup. It's like Christmas every day, every day.
[00:00:37] Speaker A: Hey, everyone, my name is Travis. I'm doing the producer role today. Kyle is taking the day off. Much deserved day off. And Bill's over there on the other side. So good morning, Bill.
[00:00:45] Speaker B: You know, I did that, everybody. Like, he's doing all the work. He's like. And Bill's on the other side.
That's what you said. And Bill is sitting there doing nothing, slurping coffee.
[00:00:55] Speaker A: I'm sweating over here. I'm dying.
[00:00:58] Speaker B: We're so grateful for you, Travis, because wouldn't be able to do this without you. Because if you handed me that, that all the, all this, oh, trust equipment, I'd be a lost cause.
[00:01:05] Speaker A: Very true, very true. But anyway, no legacy podcast. We're so happy you guys are here with us this morning and thank you guys so much for checking us out. You can always check us out online. We're on the youtubes, we are on Instagram and we are on Facebook, which is fantastic. Check us out there if you want to give us really on the Twitter machine.
[00:01:22] Speaker B: But you know, it is what it is.
[00:01:23] Speaker A: That's all political.
[00:01:24] Speaker B: It is very political.
[00:01:25] Speaker A: We're not going to fit in there because this is not a political podcast. This is a spiritual podcast. Spiritual podcast about men waking up, gearing up and coming along.
[00:01:34] Speaker B: Amen. That's what our goal is. That's our desire today.
[00:01:36] Speaker A: Email is infoonelegacy.org and two big events coming up. The first event is the date night.
[00:01:42] Speaker B: Bill Tall 13th, 6:30pm you're going to want to be there. We have a comedian coming in. Travis Crim is hilarious. See, look at. You can sip too. Look at that.
We, me and Travis are going to be there. We're going to have a lot of fun. So make sure you sign up. We'll put some links of that inside the. Inside the notes for this, for this, this podcast. But make sure you go to knownlegacy.org you can sign up to both that and our men's retreat.
[00:02:06] Speaker A: Our men's retreat, which is coming up the next weekend, which is just for bros out at Arrowhead. Camp, I believe in the DFW area. It is gonna be a fantastic.
It's gonna be an amazing weekend. I think we have.
We've almost doubled from what we did last year, which is awesome. And we are excited. Limited space, particularly on if you want to sleep in a bed by yourself. Not in your bed, I'm sorry, your fridge.
[00:02:27] Speaker B: Timeout.
[00:02:28] Speaker A: Yeah, we're not sharing beds.
[00:02:29] Speaker B: You can have your own bed.
[00:02:30] Speaker A: Either way you get your own bed at this men's retreat. That's not the question. If you're a snorer and you want your own room or you don't want to sleep with someone who is a snorer. That's what it is. Some rooms have one bed, some room have two beds. That's all it is.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:02:45] Speaker A: It's going to be a day, man. It's going to be.
[00:02:47] Speaker B: It's okay, though. We got through it. We're getting through it. We're doing really, really good. So make sure you sign up to those events again, thanks for listening. Hey, if you're. If you're new here, follow like us and share this with a friend because we want to. To build our community. We want to encourage other men and women to wake up, gear up, and come alive. And we are so thankful for you taking the time to listen us today. We're excited about our guest today. Before that, we have the question of.
[00:03:09] Speaker A: The day, which is the question of the day.
[00:03:11] Speaker B: We need to get out of the. We need to get like an intro music for that.
[00:03:14] Speaker A: That is the intro music. I think I just copyright Travis harchin. That's it. 10%. That's all I need. Copyright, not copyright. Question of the day.
[00:03:23] Speaker B: We are a hot mess today. Welcome to the show. You guys are getting the. This is like known legacy in the Raw or something. I don't know. But anyways, question of the day is if you could bring back something from your childhood, okay. Whether like a toy or an item that you lost, what would you bring now?
[00:03:40] Speaker A: I'd bring back my grandfather. I'm kidding.
[00:03:43] Speaker B: I was like, wait a timeout. Time out. He's not. This is weird.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Okay, so it's a two. It's. It's. It's two part.
I would bring back my bike. Not because my bike was exceptional or amazing or anything else, but what my bike represented when I was a kid.
[00:03:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:59] Speaker A: Was this group of guys that we would ride around the neighborhood, like for hours during the summertime, and we would just go up to the park and we'd make up baseball games. Or we'd go over to the woods and we'd explore. And it was just like the epitome of freedom and the epitome of, like, being a kid and, you know, knowing when the street lights come on, you gotta go home. And, you know, moms would start calling around 6 o' clock, dinner times, and, you know, it just. All of it would. So I just want that bike back. And I want everything that came with that bike just for a week, to be that kid, not have to worry about anything.
[00:04:37] Speaker B: It's funny you say that, because that is literally what I was thinking when I thought about this was like. Because I feel like that represented childhood.
[00:04:45] Speaker A: Yes. It represents so much.
[00:04:48] Speaker B: I went back to my father's house this year, where he still lives in the same house that I grew up in, which is crazy. Which is a lot smaller than I thought it was. Because when I was a kid, you could do all these kind of fun things, but down the street, because we had these four little, little blocks. I think we've talked about that before. But there was this one house right near us that had a hill. And they've actually. I saw it at this saw when I was there, they. They turned it into, like, a planter. But before it was just a hill, and so you could kind of jump up it and land back on the street. You had just enough air to land back on the street, and you felt so cool.
[00:05:22] Speaker A: And when you were a kid, you felt like you were going miles in.
[00:05:24] Speaker B: The air and we were, like, 2 inches off the ground, you know, say.
[00:05:27] Speaker A: For like a millisecond.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:05:29] Speaker A: But that weightlessness was, like, so, so amazing.
[00:05:33] Speaker B: And another thing. Okay, I'm gonna say two things, is I used to be able to juggle really, really well.
[00:05:39] Speaker A: Stop it.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: I'm not joking.
[00:05:40] Speaker A: How are you? We've been doing this seven years, and I'm just finding this dude.
[00:05:44] Speaker B: I can. I can juggle and eat an apple while I juggle.
[00:05:47] Speaker A: I. I think next podcast we're gonna watch Bill Juggle and Eat an Apple.
[00:05:51] Speaker B: So. So there's this one time I was at scout camp and I juggled. I juggled some, like, eggs and everything. And I don't know why they did. This is so random. Ronald McDonald showed up.
[00:06:00] Speaker A: What?
[00:06:00] Speaker B: Yes, they had Ronald McDonald show up.
[00:06:02] Speaker A: The real Ronald.
[00:06:03] Speaker B: Ronald McDonald. The real one. The only one who's ever existed.
And he came in.
[00:06:08] Speaker A: Such a scary dude.
[00:06:10] Speaker B: He was. He was. And he. And I'm not sure if I still have these. That's why I'm trying to Figure out. But he saw me juggle, and he gave me three juggling pins.
Like, pins to juggle. And I wish I could bring those back, because I literally had them for, like, I tried them, and I was like, am I gonna be a dork if I keep doing this? And I kind of put them away. But I think I would bring those back, too, because I really would love to try that.
[00:06:33] Speaker A: You know what? Honestly, I think a rule in life is if a scary clown gives you gifts, it's best to just put them away.
It's not a gift you need to invest in.
[00:06:46] Speaker C: You're right.
[00:06:46] Speaker B: It was right around the time when I read it, and so I probably. Probably didn't want them anyways at that point.
[00:06:50] Speaker A: From red balloons to jug clubs.
Just run.
[00:06:54] Speaker B: Just say no. Just say no.
Anyways, we're so glad to have our guest, Matt Ichesan, pastor of Newtown Road. Matt, good to have you on here today, man. Thank you so much for being here. And so.
So based on now.
[00:07:09] Speaker A: Now questioning all of these things, why.
[00:07:10] Speaker B: Did I get on here today?
[00:07:11] Speaker A: What's going on I could be doing?
[00:07:14] Speaker C: I'm like, I feel. I feel sorry for Travis. I mean, God, your poor grandfather, may he rest in peace. And, like, this is definitely the coolest meeting on my schedule this week. That'll work.
[00:07:26] Speaker B: That'll work. We'll do it.
[00:07:27] Speaker C: Oh, my gosh.
[00:07:29] Speaker B: So you, man, what about you? If you could bring something back from your childhood, maybe that's not a scary clown, but if it is, feel free to share it. But what would you bring back?
[00:07:37] Speaker C: Okay, this is gonna be a little bit interesting.
I had a cassette tape. Bruce Springsteen's born in the USA and when I was 8 years old or 7 years old, I guess my parents bought me Born in the usa And I listened that thing to death until people at our church found out and told my parents they were evil, so they had to get rid of it.
[00:08:01] Speaker A: But, ah, the good old days.
[00:08:06] Speaker C: That cassette tape kind of awakened me to the Boss. And I have.
I have an obsession with Springsteen to this day and just love him so much. So, yeah, I would definitely have that just because of what it represented it like. I grew up in a small town, and, you know, just that that edgy Rust Belt kind of ring to Born in the USA just kind of resonated with me.
[00:08:31] Speaker B: It was a good song, man. That was a good song.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Oh, man, I won't share my take on Bruce Springs.
[00:08:37] Speaker B: I know. I know where we lean I know where his. But I get his heart and I'm excited about that.
[00:08:42] Speaker A: No, no, no. I tried. I have a buddy of mine who is like, that is the apex of all musicians is Bruce Springsteen. Anytime we do together, we're listening to Bruce Springsteen. And my wife and I were at the gym one time, and Bruce came on the Boss.
[00:08:56] Speaker B: The Boss.
[00:08:57] Speaker A: The Boss comes on, and I can't remember what I'm doing, but I stopped what I was doing. I went over to my wife and I said, this is a take that's not going to make anyone happy, but I think he's overrated. And she's like, don't share that with everyone.
Anyone. So anyways, I just shared it with you.
[00:09:10] Speaker B: Want to leave now? Or are you, like, are you good with still doing this podcast with us or.
[00:09:13] Speaker A: No, but that song was like.
[00:09:14] Speaker C: I'm okay.
[00:09:15] Speaker A: That song was like, a pinnacle song for that time. And then you had John Cougar melon camp with little pink houses coming on and, you know Little Diddy about Jack and Diane.
[00:09:27] Speaker C: Oh, man, we're singing here.
[00:09:28] Speaker A: You don't even know the song.
[00:09:29] Speaker B: They're two American kids growing up in the heartlands.
[00:09:33] Speaker C: Amen.
[00:09:33] Speaker B: Isn't that it? That is it.
[00:09:34] Speaker A: That's it. I knew it.
[00:09:36] Speaker B: I knew it.
[00:09:36] Speaker A: But no singing.
[00:09:37] Speaker B: But was that John Mellencamp or John Cougar? Mellencamp or John Cougar? Like, I just don't know which one he was at the time. We got to figure that out.
[00:09:42] Speaker A: He's gone through some transformations. We're going to give him some time.
[00:09:45] Speaker B: The artist formerly known as John Cougar.
[00:09:46] Speaker C: Hey, fun story. John Mellencamp married his. One of his first wives was a girl who grew up in my hometown.
[00:09:53] Speaker B: No way.
[00:09:54] Speaker C: No way.
[00:09:55] Speaker A: Did you know her?
[00:09:56] Speaker C: No, of course not. No. But I was. I'm way too Travis. I am way too young to know John Cougar's first.
[00:10:03] Speaker A: That's true.
[00:10:04] Speaker C: Second, third, wife, whatever.
[00:10:06] Speaker A: You know, I should have put the pieces together because you're the guy that came from a family that Bruce Springsteen was the devil, and you couldn't listen to him. Why would I think you're hanging out with someone who's going to marry John Coog? Cougar. The Coug.
[00:10:17] Speaker B: The Coug. Oh, man. Well, hey, now that we've gone off the rails completely, man, we're so glad to have you on, man.
So just to give you a little backstory, I have a lot of respect for Matt. I love. You know, Matt's the guy that, when I see him, I'm like, why didn't we get a chance to do ministry for 20 years together. I love this guy. I love his heart, the church that Matt leads. And I won't take all your fire, Matt, but I want to share this. The church that Matt leads is a place where I came to know Christ in. And so, man, so me and Matt met because he took over for the youth ministry when I left to go whatever this crazy adventure has been for 20 years, to leave and go to Midland, Texas. But I met this guy and I'm like, man, I wish we could have had years together. And that's why I wanted to get him on the podcast, because this is a man of God who loves the Lord, man. He loves his people. He shepherds them well. And so, Matt, share some more of your story about who you came from and all that kind of good stuff with our listeners.
[00:11:09] Speaker C: Well, thanks, Bill. Thanks, Travis. Yeah, I mean, I grew up in southeast Pennsylvania, outside of Philadelphia, in a little small farming and industrial town called Boyertown.
Got saved when I was 16 years old. My parents, I grew up in a fundamentalist Baptist church. But man, those people love the Lord and they love their Bibles and they loved our community and they loved me.
And so I came to Faith in Christ at 16 years old @ one of those church camp revivals, there was a message that I would never preach. It was called Hell, a place you ought to know in case you're going to go.
Yeah, he was fired up. It was very typical of that era.
But the Lord used that message just to awaken me and realize, man, my parents faith wasn't mine and I needed to do something personal for all of that. So I tell people all the time. At 16 years old, man, I had heard the gospel a million times. I didn't need anybody to lead me in it. I just walked out of a little chapel and I laid down under a tree on a hillside and cried my way into the arms of Jesus.
And my life hasn't been the same since. It was a pretty wild ride.
I studied ministry at Liberty in Lynchburg, Virginia, and when I graduated from there, I started working in youth ministry, a place called Ridgeview Baptist in Stewart Strath, Virginia, which is a pretty small town close to Lynchburg. Had some friends there and served there for a few years and really loved youth ministry, loved learning about ministry. I was really young, really green, didn't have a clue what I was doing and then got a call one day I was out. Bill, I don't know if you know this, man. I was out painting a house because I was working on the side trying because I was a youth pastor, so I was working on the side painting houses, and I got a call from our. From Bill and I. We have a mutual friend named Scott who was working here, and he said, hey, we're looking for a new youth pastor. Would you be interested? And I'm like, yeah, I don't know. I don't think so. And got to talk to the senior pastor here, a guy named Duke, and I think he's been on your podcast.
[00:13:14] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, Various times. We love that dude.
[00:13:17] Speaker C: Yeah. So I got to talk to Duke and hung out with him on the phone for a little bit, and I was like, man, I really need to meet this guy. And so we. We came up here, fell in love with Duke, fell in love with the church, fell in love with the area. And in September 2005, we moved up here to do youth ministry. And that. That's my. That was my second tour in youth ministry.
That's what they feel like.
[00:13:38] Speaker B: They do feel like tours. Let's be honest.
[00:13:41] Speaker C: It's pretty wild. Yeah. And, you know, 20 years later, we're still here, just same church, same group of people, mostly, and just loving the Lord and grinding it out.
[00:13:51] Speaker A: So I know I started off in youth ministry as well. And the adventures of youth ministry, they leave marks.
They leave some marks.
[00:14:00] Speaker B: They tend to.
[00:14:01] Speaker A: How long were you in youth ministry?
And then, like, when did you begin to understand or discover God's calling for something beyond youth ministry? Because, honestly, youth ministry to a lot is a young man's game. It's really hard to do youth ministry well when you got young kids yourself, because your time to connect with kids is from three to eight at night, and your time to connect with your family becomes three to eight at night on the weekends. So there's a lot of conflict that can happen there. So what was that journey like for you, and how did you, like, come to peace with my season in youth ministry is done and the next journey or the next adventures ahead?
[00:14:40] Speaker C: That's a good. Great question. Yeah. I was doing youth ministry for a total of about eight years, almost nine years, I think.
And, you know, my first stint in youth ministry, I felt.
Well, I felt a little overmatched, of course, because you never really know what you're doing. But then I got my feet under me, and I felt like, oh, I can handle this. I can do this. And then when I moved here to New York and really started to grow in, like, a mentoring relationship with Duke, that's when kind of that holy discontentment started to like, well up and.
And I got to the point where the things that I was really gifted in in ministry, the things that the church was affirming, that the Spirit was working through God's people to affirm in me these gifts. It was always in leadership and teaching.
I remember I was doing a study through the book of Hebrews, and I got to that part where the author says, I have so much more to tell you, but you're not ready.
And I was teaching a group of students, and I just felt like in that moment, like, man, I feel like that's me. I feel like there's more in here that has to come out, but I can't quite share it here.
Yeah. And so it was probably. You know, I was probably about 28, 29 years old when I started to realize, I think God's calling me to do more of a teaching and leadership role, you know, lead pastoring. I thought about church planting, stuff like that. But, yeah, it took. It was just the affirmation of the Spirit through God's people that. That really helped me. Go for it, you know?
[00:16:20] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:16:21] Speaker B: No, I love it. So. So, okay. So then you realize, hey, I'm supposed to do this.
Where did the wrestle come in? Like, what was the next step for that? Like, did you kind of say, did you start talking to people, or did you just kind of leave it to the Lord? Like, what. What was your process in that? Because I knew there's a lot of people that are like, I feel like I'm supposed to do the next thing, but how do I practically start to walk down that road?
[00:16:40] Speaker C: Yeah, it gets. It gets kind of tough, because if you're at a church and you want to be the lead guy, there's only one of those on staff.
And so are you sure?
[00:16:48] Speaker A: And typically, you can't have that conversation with him. Hey, I'm coming for your job.
[00:16:53] Speaker C: Yeah. Yeah. So that. That's tough. But one of the things that Duke did really well, and he was.
He was probably in his 50s at the time, and we were still in our 20s, we would get together for mentoring meetings and stuff, and he did a really good job kind of calling out what he saw in us and kind of helping us give a voice to that stirring in us.
And so he was the first one. He was the first spiritual authority in my life who said to me, I don't see you doing youth ministry forever.
I think he said it. You have too much preach in your son.
There's too much burning in there to just focus on teenagers and he was the first one that said, I could see you being a lead pastor or a teaching pastor, and that was years before our transition. But he was the one that initiated that conversation and kind of gave me freedom to explore those gifts. But then he also wasn't intimidated by that, and he gave me a platform. He let me preach multiple times a year.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: Such a good man.
[00:18:01] Speaker C: Preaching a lot, actually, for him while we were here. So he really was helpful in calling that out.
[00:18:08] Speaker A: So there's always a unique dance and conversations that happen with our spouses when we are feeling that God's calling us to a transition or he's already laughing.
How those conversations go with your lovely bride and introduce her to us. Tell us about your family a little bit, too.
[00:18:27] Speaker C: Yeah. My wife's name's Amanda. We met in college at Liberty.
We joke that Johnny Cash song. We got married in a fever. We dated for, like, three months. We were engaged for three months, and we got married. And 24 years later, when you know, you know.
[00:18:42] Speaker B: When you know, you know.
[00:18:43] Speaker C: Yeah, man, that's it, man. So we. We're still here.
She always saw in me more than I could see in myself.
And so it wasn't surprising to her at all to know that I had these stirrings for. For teaching ministry or lead pastoral ministry.
That wasn't surprising to her at all.
I tell you, the hard part was convincing her that New York was going to be where we built our home.
She's from the South. She's from Tennessee. We are 13 hours by car away from her family, and she's an only child. And so convincing her that we were living in New York was the hard part. And actually, that was, like, probably one of my biggest marriage failures was that it wasn't like an ongoing, lengthy, prayerful conversation. It was a. Oh, my gosh, guess what just happened at work today. I have to tell you this. We're gonna stay here forever.
Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, I did stupid stuff like that at the time, and it wasn't quite that abrupt.
[00:19:51] Speaker B: We all did. We've all done that. Right.
[00:19:53] Speaker A: We should start another podcast. The stupid stuff I've done, the stupid things we've done.
So how she. How she processed that and how did she.
Yeah, how'd she process that?
[00:20:04] Speaker C: You know what? It. It was a. It's a statement of her love for the Lord and her love for our church. I mean, it is. It was. It has been. I mean, 20 years later, it's still hard. Still hard being so far away from family, still hard for our kids. Still hard for, you know, just dealing with the family dynamics of all that. But you know, she loved our people. She gave herself to serving our people and to serving me so that I could serve our people. Because any, I mean any church of any size, if your pastor is an active minister and he's available in your life, that's because somebody in his life is holding down the fort. And so she, she just took that role on and ran with it and did an exceptional job supporting me as I supported our people.
[00:20:53] Speaker A: That's awesome. How about kids? What were your kids like? And I know New York is, you know, man, that's an interesting state to live in. So what was it like for your kids to process through that?
[00:21:04] Speaker C: Well, my kids were really young, so they didn't have a choice and they didn't know any better. When we arrived here in New York, my oldest, who is going to turn 21 next month, my oldest was only a year old.
And so we had three of our kids here in New York. They only have ever known, they don't remember my youth ministry days. They've only ever known me as their pastor.
[00:21:27] Speaker A: Right.
[00:21:28] Speaker C: And so they.
I hear a lot of horror stories about pastor's kids and I've known pastors kids who really had a rough go. Our church has been so good to my kids and to my family and they, they love it here. My oldest was interning here this summer as she's home from college. You know, they love it here.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: That's awesome. So you mentioned pastors kids and we've, we. This is kind of a theme that comes up from time to time because we do interview a lot of pastors as a senior pastor and kind of the shepherd of the flock. What encouragement would you have for dads as they're trying to shepherd their kids in their faith?
Particularly, let's say there's a kid that is somewhat rebellious or somewhat turned off by the faith or somewhat disillusioned by the faith for whatever reason, what would you encourage them with?
[00:22:18] Speaker C: That's really good.
Two things really.
You can't take somebody where you've not gone yourself.
And so spiritual dads. If you're going to be a dad who is worth your salt, if you're going to be a dad who's, who is, you know, doing the work of gospel parenting, you've got to be a dad whose heart and mind are being formed and saturated by Jesus. Like you've got to make sure that that's a priority in your own life.
And the second thing I would say Is, you know, the heavenly God reveals himself to us as a father and as an earthly dad. You know, sometimes you just got to deal with your kids fits and their tantrums, and God the father is strong enough to handle all of the emotions and all the doubts and all the fears and all the arguments of your kid. And give your kid, give your son, especially your daughter, give them the freedom to be a human person wrestling with the promises of God and eternal things. Like I would say, just give them that patience. But it's, it's not the winsomeness of your argument that's going to win your kid's heart. It's the winsomeness of your persistence in love that moves the needle. You're not going to argue your kid into the kingdom of heaven.
You're going to love them there. Right?
[00:23:43] Speaker A: I think as you're sharing that the story that comes to mind is the prodigal son. And we always talk about the love moment of the prodigal son is when the dad will run back to the son. But I think honestly, the most sacrificial love moment is when the dad lets him go and it's like, okay, this is your life. This is your decision. I will give you my. The inheritance that is yours. I'm going to let you go. And he doesn't continue to beat the dead horse. He doesn't continue to pursue them or whatever. He just go. Because he knew, I think instinctively the world's going to eat you up and spit you out. Like, like you think your philosophy and your worldview is going to survive and is going to serve you well. It's not. And so I will be here with a relationship that's ready to invest in you whenever, whenever the world spits you out.
And I think that's. That's kind of what you're talking about with kids is like, if your kid's struggling with it, there's a pursuit that you can have, but there's also this permission that you can give to say, you know what, maybe you need to go and I'm going to trust God because God loves you more than I do. I'm going to trust that he's not done with you yet. I'm going to let you go and I'm going to just see what God in the spirit and the world does to you. And whenever you're ready, I am here for you. And I think that's so hard to do, but so important.
[00:25:04] Speaker B: Yeah, I love that you talked about the value of a foundation, the importance of and Even if dads are out there and like, man, I haven't been that guy. Like, today is a great day to start.
[00:25:15] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:25:15] Speaker B: And start to put that foundation in. But I love that you did that with them and kind of allowed them to have that opportunity and kind of shepherd them through that. Like, like, you can't bring them where you, where you currently aren't, you know, or, or have never have never been. I love that. And I think there's something important about that. So, guys, it is that this is that wake up call we talk about, man. It's that time to say your impact matters more than anybody else. And, and I love especially. And I, I'm a little bit biased to those who, who, who are in ministry that the enemy's, like, I really, really, really hate them.
[00:25:44] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:25:44] Speaker B: Like, they're, they're on the front line. So I'm going to just try and destroy their family, their kids, put that kind of brokenness between them and their spouse. And, and so. But I think being diligent in those, I love that you're sharing that about the value of it. And I think there's something important about that. But then it also makes me think about as you transitioned from youth pastor to senior pastor, it sounds like you had a healthy leader.
[00:26:05] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:26:07] Speaker B: A lot of people don't. And so I guess I'm trying to figure out, like, what's some encouragement you would say to the lead pastor who's out there listening, who is maybe in his 60s, who's like, I have to, I have to pass this off. I mean, it's not their kingdom.
[00:26:21] Speaker A: Although sadly, too many think it is.
[00:26:24] Speaker B: Too many think it is. What would, what would be your encouragement to those guys to say, hey, this is what you should do to prepare your heart for the next generation?
[00:26:31] Speaker C: Yeah, that's really good. Really good.
A couple of things. You know, I'm in my mid. Well, my late 40s. My kids would let you know, I'm in my late 40s now.
[00:26:41] Speaker B: We were born in the 1900s. That's all.
[00:26:43] Speaker C: That's right. That's right. Yeah. And so I'm starting to think about legacy. I'm starting to think about the transitional times and how many more, you know, more years before we start looking for that replacement and stuff like that.
There's a couple things that I think would be really helpful.
Some that I saw from Duke and some that I just see as warnings from my own heart.
So all of us in ministry, we have a temporary post here. Right. Like, I am not eternally going to be Pastor Matt.
I'm not.
And so my post, my ministry calling, my assignment has been sacred and beautiful and wonderful. But in the eyes of God, I'm more than my post, and I'm more than my job description or the ministry tasks that I kick out each week that serve people. So part of the struggle, I think, guys like I have is trying to envision life where I'm not the loudest voice in the room or the most honored person in the room. And there's something in us, there's something in this that doesn't want to give that up. You know, it took a long time to earn that. I don't want to hand that off. But what Duke did really well and I think is the key to the way this transition rolled out was he gave away that influence, and he shared it with me, and he validated me in the eyes of our people, because I was 32 and I had never led anything other than a youth ministry. And he handed me the reins to this church that he. He found it, you know, and so the way that that worked so well was in a sense of his humility of saying, the greatest gift I can give this church is to set it on a foundation that it can last long beyond me.
And he saw the danger of building a ministry so focused on his personality and his giftedness. He saw that very early. And so he started to hire guys that were different than him and share ministry with them. And so he modeled that for me in a way I think that will prepare me. But I think those older guys, I think you have to. One, you got to.
You don't want to say it this way. You got to get over yourself.
You're not the most important person in the world.
[00:29:03] Speaker B: Well said.
[00:29:05] Speaker C: You have this really special sacred gift to steward for a season, and then you have to hand it off to somebody. And so humble yourself and begin looking for somebody who, you know, prepare your church for. Prepare your leadership teams for it, too.
[00:29:20] Speaker B: I like that. Leadership teams. You said that because. What's some encouragement you would say about the leadership team that he's surrounded by in. Because I know that it wasn't just him in the transition. Wasn't just you. There were a lot more in the conversation.
Tell some. Some. I guess some, like, some positives from that. Some things that you would encourage churches that are walking through those kind of transitions. What would you say to them about their leadership teams and things like that as well?
[00:29:43] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, we believe. And I'm not going to start a debate with Anybody. But we believe in the biblical office of elder. And so we use a team of elders. And those guys are not businessmen. Some of them own businesses, but that's not why they're there. And they're not on the team because they're really super successful in the eyes of this world. They're on the team because God called them, equipped them to help shepherd and pastor the people of our church and lead them. And so when we come to these decisions, we lean on our elder team to work through that together because God is using them to minister to the people. Right. And so I think, I think for a pastor who is preparing a transition, if he wants it to be successful and fruitful, he's going to have to include the other stakeholders in the leadership structure of the church, whether that's your deacons, your elders, you know, whatever, whatever denominational group you're working with, and begin a long lead up into that transitional period where they're owning this transition and they're carrying the vision. Because if it's going to be successful after the outgoing pastor's gone, it's going to be those guys who are providing the stability for the newer, younger pastor.
And so it can't. I think oftentimes we, we allow the leadership teams to kind of be removed from that.
[00:31:06] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:31:07] Speaker C: And it's the pastor's decision and the next pastor, and so he leaves. This new guy comes, but. But he doesn't have friends to help hold the line, you know. So I think you have to include the leadership team in a much probably earlier than you anticipating and give them more responsibility.
[00:31:22] Speaker B: That's awesome.
[00:31:23] Speaker A: Love it.
[00:31:23] Speaker B: I think there is, there's something value of like finding the right, the right team to work with you, but that really does rise and fall on that. Like everything rise and falls on leadership.
[00:31:32] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:31:32] Speaker B: So the value of that, that's awesome. And so. Okay, so now you've had that transition, how many years has it been since you guys have made the. I would say because one of the reasons why I wanted you on is the health is probably one of the healthiest transitions I've ever seen in church ministry that I've seen. I've seen Duke and Matt take this on to kind of get a front row seat from the cheap seats, if I can say that.
To see you guys. And knowing Duke's heart, I mean, he's an anomaly anyways. But I think he's an anomaly because all he does what Jesus wants him to do.
[00:32:02] Speaker A: Right.
[00:32:02] Speaker B: And I don't mean that. And he's not Boasting that I'm saying that from him. So I love that. So I know that that's a. Those are also big, big shoes to fill. And I really do. I will say this with all. With all integrity.
You've done a really good job. Well done doing that. You really have.
So how long have you been the lead pastor at Newtown? I almost said the other Baptist.
[00:32:25] Speaker C: Yeah, that's okay.
[00:32:27] Speaker B: It's funny, when I was up there speaking, I said Temple Newtown Baptist Road. I don't know. It was like some we row. Anyways.
[00:32:33] Speaker C: But yes, that's our story. I've been actually since. It's been 15 years this summer.
[00:32:39] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:32:41] Speaker C: I closed my eyes and opened them and I was like, whoa, what just happened? 15 years in this seat, and probably.
It feels so. It could happen so fast. Probably because of ptsd. I think I blocked out most of it.
The first few years were obviously the hardest. These last few years have been the sweetest. I can see why people want to stay for a long time because, man, it's the real, like, the most enjoyable, lasting fruit. I mean, doesn't come right away, but those early years, I was 32 years old. It was the day after my 32nd birthday that we had the transition service.
And you don't know what you don't know. I had a ton of energy.
I had a ton of energy, and I had a lot of persuasion. I have a very strong and stubborn personality.
And so I basically said, well, I'm just going to use all these gifts that have gotten me to this point. We're going to make it work. And those early days were a whole lot of fits and starts and a lot of stumbling and a lot of frustration on my part. Duke was great.
I almost had a breakdown, but Duke was great.
[00:33:53] Speaker A: It sounds like it's a lot of humility in the process, a lot of abiding in Christ and not being afraid to do something. Like courage is the word that I would use. There was a lot of courage. You might say stubbornness, but courage to do things and to try things, and when it doesn't work out, quickly pivot and apologize and move forward. And I think those are skills that are learned in youth ministry that when learned well, serve well as you continue to serve within the church. So, Matt, it's been a pleasure having this conversation. It's been awesome having you on.
[00:34:24] Speaker B: So before we jump into our other segment, any final thoughts that you'd want to share about this? Because we're going to have you on again. I want to talk to you more about some other things, but, man. Any final thoughts about what we've talked about today? Encouragement or bites of wisdom you'd like to share?
[00:34:38] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that really stands out this morning, guys, is that encouragement to young dads trying to lead their families.
Your kids aren't expecting you to be a theologian, and God isn't requiring you to be a pastor or a theologian.
You literally just have to be, like, a step ahead of them on the journey and say, hey, guys, look what I found. I found this.
And so, like Bill said, if you've been struggling to get started, open up your Bible app today and just read a chapter of the Psalms and meditate on what it means to be planted by the streams of water and your fruit doesn't wither and it.
Just read Psalm 1 and meditate on that and then talk to your kids tonight and say, guys, look what I found. But you don't have to be. You don't have to know all the answers. You just kind of stumble your way through it with them and be honest about that. So just really encourage men. You know, honestly, I think if the men in our churches would love the Lord Jesus with all their heart, soul, mind, and strength, man, their families would follow suit and the world would be a different place. So just keep grinding. Don't give up. Keep. Keep grinding.
[00:35:46] Speaker A: You don't need all the answers, but you need to know the one who does. And his name is Jesus.
[00:35:50] Speaker B: Yeah, we make it so difficult.
[00:35:52] Speaker A: We do.
[00:35:53] Speaker C: Truth.
[00:35:54] Speaker B: And as in the words of one of my favorites, I'm not a smart man, so just. Just do what you know to do.
[00:36:01] Speaker C: I know what love is.
[00:36:02] Speaker B: I know what love is.
[00:36:03] Speaker A: And I do think. I do think there's something. The powerful, like, we think it's all in the words. And sometimes having our kids just see us struggle with it and having our kids see an authentic faith of not feeling, it's just. It's a beautiful thing. So well done, man. Thank you so much, brother.
[00:36:20] Speaker C: Thank you, guys.
[00:36:21] Speaker A: Awesome.
[00:36:21] Speaker B: Awesome. Well, dude, so this moves us into our fast five.
There it is. I love it. That's awesome.
[00:36:28] Speaker A: I can't believe I had to push that button.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: I know you hate that button.
[00:36:30] Speaker A: I do.
[00:36:32] Speaker B: With all the tenu. There's a disdain that you hate for that, so.
Oh, fast five, Matt. So who do you most admire and why?
[00:36:41] Speaker C: Okay, so I have a.
The preacher. I'm a pastor, so this guy's gonna have to be a preacher.
I really admire Alistair Begg out of Parkside Church in Ohio. I've listened to him a ton. I've read a lot of his stuff. I've attended a lot of his conferences.
He just retired from ministry, and in all these years, there just hasn't been scandal, and he's just been. He doesn't get caught up in the fluff and the cultural garbage. He just preaches the Bible and loves people. And. And I have. I have found him to be very encouraging. So I admire. The older I get, the more I admire people who just put their hand to the plow and just didn't look back.
[00:37:19] Speaker A: You know, I just like his accent. I mean, he's a great theologian, too, but I could listen to him read a cookbook to me and put me to sleep.
[00:37:27] Speaker B: Exactly. It's amazing. I almost did it. I was like, I'm gonna stop right.
[00:37:30] Speaker A: Now, because, yes, I want to, but I'm like, I would do no. No service to it.
[00:37:35] Speaker C: You. Yeah. Bill, you do a very good Scottish.
[00:37:37] Speaker B: So, I mean, I do. I do a good. I do a good Scottishman. Absolutely. I do it.
Duke. Every time I have Duke on, he's like, can you be that. You do the Scottish guy? Absolutely.
Oh, man. All right, number two, where would you like to go for a vacation with you or your family or you and your wife?
[00:37:59] Speaker C: Okay, well, okay, so if it's me and my wife, I want to go to the Caribbean, and I want to sit on a beach somewhere and do nothing for two weeks while some nice young gentleman brings me chips and salsa. Right? I just want to. I just want to do nothing and soak up the sun. Right?
But if it's me, I want to take a reformation tour around Europe, and I want to go to. Want to go to France, and I want to go to Germany, and I just want to see these places where Luther and Calvin and Zwingli lived and worked. And so that would be really fun for me and argue and fought.
[00:38:31] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:38:32] Speaker A: And we need that in our church. Again, just a little side. I think our church needs some diet of worms action where we just get in a room and, you know, fisticuffs and, you know, we just. And let everyone listen and they decide what they need to decide. Let's do it.
[00:38:47] Speaker B: That sounds.
[00:38:48] Speaker C: If you want to start that right now, we could just start arguing about stuff.
[00:38:51] Speaker B: We can.
[00:38:51] Speaker A: You know what?
[00:38:52] Speaker B: I think we're all kind of equally yoked in this one.
Pretty good. Anybody else want to join the party? You let us know, and I will get you Matt's cell phone number, and we can Have a conversation.
[00:39:03] Speaker A: Matt would love to have theological conversations with you.
[00:39:06] Speaker C: With random strangers. Please.
[00:39:07] Speaker B: Random strangers. Because I have.
[00:39:08] Speaker A: Always works out. Always works out so well.
[00:39:10] Speaker B: It's good. You know, I've always heard it's the best thing about life is fighting online, on Facebook. It's always the best thing.
It's been the most productive.
[00:39:17] Speaker A: I mean, we've all changed because of the arguments we've had.
[00:39:20] Speaker B: On my deathbed, I'll be like, I wish I fought more on Facebook.
Anyways, Anyways. Okay, number three, what are you currently reading? The Bible or another book? What are you currently reading right now?
[00:39:31] Speaker C: Well, yeah, I have always. Always in the. In the process of a Bible reading plan. I always use a plan of some kind because it helps me stay on track. And then I just for fun, I like the Gray man novels by Mark Greeny.
I like Lee Child and the Jack Reacher novels. So at night, as I'm trying to go to sleep, I'm reading about people having their. Their necks slit and stuff, you know.
[00:39:53] Speaker B: So it's actually pretty similar to ministry, just so you know.
[00:39:59] Speaker C: I think sometimes that's why I'm in it, because I'm like, I have this really sanitized profession where I can't, like, just lose myself and go rage. Yes.
If I read books about that, I'm like, oh, that's how it feels.
[00:40:11] Speaker B: It's all good. It's all good.
[00:40:13] Speaker A: For some reason, after the board of directors meeting, I read three chapters.
[00:40:16] Speaker B: I don't know why. And I feel so fulfilled. So much like a baby.
[00:40:21] Speaker C: They won't do much for your sanctification, but I kind of enjoy getting lost in that man.
[00:40:26] Speaker B: Oh, that's awesome. Awesome.
[00:40:27] Speaker A: Excellent.
[00:40:28] Speaker B: Okay, what's a goal you have for this year?
[00:40:31] Speaker C: I want to get fitter. I want to.
My physical health is something that's kind of weighing on me.
I've done a lot of reading and stuff, and in your 40s, you kind of lay the foundation for your health later in life. And so I don't want to wake up at like, 65 and be like, oh, no, I got to get started on this. I just want to reorient my regular patterns of sleep, diet, exercise, and Sabbath and kind of let that carry me. So that's a goal I have.
[00:41:01] Speaker B: Well, it's funny you said that, because my physical health weighs on me too.
[00:41:07] Speaker A: It does.
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Dad jokes brought to you by Known Legacy.
[00:41:09] Speaker A: Yeah, Info and Known Legacy Share your dad jokes and your theological arguments.
[00:41:14] Speaker B: Theological debt or your theological dad and.
[00:41:16] Speaker C: Can we talk politics? That'd Be fun.
[00:41:17] Speaker B: Oh, yes, absolutely.
Because religion and politics are great and they're perfect ideas for Thanksgiving.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: Yeah, that's it. So let's go into that topic starters given to you by no legacy. So what do you think about.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Here's our free. Downloadable. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, dear goodness. Okay, moving on. Sorry, man. We have derailed this thing. It's on the.
[00:41:35] Speaker A: I'm actually enjoying this fast five.
[00:41:38] Speaker B: He hates.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Fast.
[00:41:41] Speaker B: Oh, it's. It's a fruitful five, though. It's a fruitful five.
All right. Anyways, so Matt, number five, most impactful piece of advice you've ever been given.
[00:41:50] Speaker C: Oh, this is so good.
Okay, so here's. I'm going to give you two, Bill.
And I'm going to cheat. So it's the fast six today.
Here we go. Alistair Begg quoted, I think John Stott and he said you overestimate what you can accomplish in ministry in one year and underestimate what God can do in five.
And so that for somebody like me who's kind of a hard charger and you know, foot on the gas at all times, gave me the freedom to slow down and imagine ministry in five year increments, not in like 18 month increments.
And the Lord's done some really cool stuff in that.
And then the other is one of our elders. He's with the Lord now. Bill, you'll remember Claude Hein?
Yeah, but he had like 60 years of gospel ministry experience. And he, he said to me one day, he said, Matt, you know, if, if preachers and shepherds would just take care of the sheep, God will bring the lambs. And just a great reminder that my calling is to tend the flock and trust that healthy sheep will reproduce in their time.
[00:42:58] Speaker B: That's good.
Well, you threw a Claude Hein out there for me.
[00:43:02] Speaker C: I love that guy.
[00:43:02] Speaker B: I haven't heard that name in forever. That's awesome.
[00:43:04] Speaker A: What happened in the name Claude? I feel like we need to resurrect that and make that another popular boy's.
[00:43:09] Speaker B: Name next time you and your wife have a baby.
[00:43:10] Speaker C: There you go, Travis. You got it.
[00:43:12] Speaker A: Negative, Ghost Rider. That flight pattern is full.
[00:43:17] Speaker B: Oh, man. Matt, this has been life giving. Thank you so much for being a part of this today, man. If you're up in the New York area, you need to check out Newtown Road. In fact, we'll have the link to, to the church in our, our notes. But Matt, we're so grateful for you, man. Any final, any final thoughts? And we kind of give it to you. Any final thoughts you want to share as well as we've spread anything on. Anything you'd like to share about church or anything like that that you have coming up?
[00:43:41] Speaker C: Yeah, you know, we're real excited, man. We've got a tremendous ministry here in New York. The Lord's doing something pretty wild. I think one of the coolest parts of pastoral ministry is I've learned through the years. And I'm really excited about this coming season. I just want to encourage people that the leadership of the Lord doesn't always come through your slick mission statement. And your plan, like the Spirit, just moves among his people and kind of catches you up in it. And we're in this in a season like that right now at church where, I mean, I'm basically a solo pastor for the last year because we don't have any other staff members. Right. And our elders are doing a tremendous job. But we have people coming all the time and staying. And I don't know them, I don't know who they are, don't know how they got here. And it's a really exciting time because the Lord is doing some really cool stuff. And I just want to encourage especially men that the greatest things that God has ever done in my life haven't come according to my plans, but they've come when the Spirit has stepped in, thrown my plan out, and then just kind of awakened something new in me.
That's been really fun.
[00:44:45] Speaker B: So good, good stuff today, man. Thank you so much, Matt. We are grateful for you. Again, like I said, we'll put his his info at the bottom. And if you have any questions, comments or concerns, info at Known Legacy. We'd love to connect you to Matt his church. And we'd love to hear from you as well. So thank you guys so much for listening today. Make sure you share this like it, man. And check out our upcoming events in the future.
[00:45:08] Speaker A: God bless you guys.
[00:45:09] Speaker B: Have a great week.
[00:45:12] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the Known Legacy podcast. We'd love to hear from you. So email us your questions or comments to Info.
[00:45:19] Speaker B: And no Legacy.
