Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:02] Speaker B: You're listening to the Known Legacy podcast, brought to you by Known Legacy Ministries.
[00:00:07] Speaker A: For more information, go to knownlegacy.org now.
[00:00:10] Speaker B: Here'S your hosts, Bill and Travis.
[00:00:16] Speaker A: Morning, Bill.
[00:00:17] Speaker B: Good morning, Travis. Good morning, Kyle.
[00:00:20] Speaker A: Good morning, Kyle. Morning.
[00:00:22] Speaker B: Morning.
[00:00:23] Speaker A: Kyle's in the corner. There's a little excitement today. I feel like the weather's changing. Finally end of November and we're finally getting fall.
[00:00:30] Speaker B: It's my second favorite kind of day.
[00:00:32] Speaker A: It's still 72 out you. I'm wearing shorts and T shirt. Yes. You're welcome.
[00:00:37] Speaker B: I remember. I'm going to rebuke you in Jesus name to even acknowledge that. Because inside it's cool out. It's cool here and it feels like it's colder. But it's like those days where it's like a cool day. Even though he said 72 and it's rainy. I've got coffee.
Life is good.
[00:00:50] Speaker A: So I feel like if Bill was a woman, he would be, like, wearing Uggs today and the leather vest and looking like Han Solo with his pumpkin spice. I think a robe.
[00:01:01] Speaker B: Timeout. I hate pumpkin spice.
[00:01:05] Speaker B: I'll take a rope.
[00:01:08] Speaker B: Welcome to Known Legacy.
[00:01:10] Speaker A: Speaking of. Welcome to Known Legacy. We're glad you guys are here checking us out. You can find us on Instagram, Facebook, and also on YouTube. As always, if you have a chance to share this, if you have a chance to give us a review. Those things help us expand and extend the mission and minist that we're a part of. Go to knownlegacy.org infoonelegacy.org if you have questions, comments. If you want to make a donation to the mission and the cause, that'd be great. If you want to check out Bill's book, you can find all the information there. And more importantly, welcome, guys. It's good to be here today.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: I think we need to give him an applause for how good he did. That was really good.
[00:01:40] Speaker A: Thank you. Thank you.
[00:01:41] Speaker B: I mean, that was like, fast.
[00:01:43] Speaker A: Seven years in, I finally.
[00:01:44] Speaker B: Seven years in.
[00:01:46] Speaker A: Okay, so here's the question of the day.
[00:01:48] Speaker B: A lot of people go to college for seven years. Tommy.
[00:01:50] Speaker A: Did I hear niner?
So question of the day.
[00:01:53] Speaker B: Question of the day.
[00:01:57] Speaker A: Christmas is around the corner. I don't know when we're gonna release this, but Christmas around the corner. And I am the guy who started listening to Christmas music right after Halloween, okay? And I know you can judge me. I don't care.
[00:02:08] Speaker B: I don't.
[00:02:08] Speaker A: I don't know how to. I don't care.
[00:02:09] Speaker B: My face shows everything.
[00:02:11] Speaker A: So here's the question today.
What is your Christmas banger of a song that you'd like? When you hear it, you crank it. And if there's a particular artist that does it in such a way that you're like, that's it. Let us know. And then what's the other side of that coin? The Christmas song that others seem to love that you're like, burn the place down. I'm done.
I want New Year's. I'm moving on. This is the song that I loathe for whatever reason. So that's the question of the day.
[00:02:38] Speaker B: What's your. Can you start? Why don't you start today? What's yours?
[00:02:40] Speaker A: Well, anything by Bing Crosby is just amazing. So to start off.
Yes. Yeah. So my mom and dad had this Time Life Records, Christmas records. Time Life Christmas records. Okay.
[00:02:54] Speaker B: And when you are the first person that I know that ever bought a Time Life anything.
[00:02:57] Speaker A: Oh, I didn't buy them my mom.
[00:02:58] Speaker B: And dad, but that's amazing. Like, I am like, we funded it. How did. How did it feel?
[00:03:02] Speaker A: Oh, it was amazing. I wish we still had them, actually. I might go try and find them. And we set up the Christmas tree, and I'd sit there in the living room with this playing on the record player. And it was one of those old school, like, piece of furniture record players. It wasn't. It was a piece of furniture record player. And I would just look out the window when it was snowing, and it was just like, so all of those are locked in, and I love them. The one that I actually love the most, I believe is by Dean Martin. And it is the marshmallow. It's the marshmallow, marshmallow world that we're living.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:03:37] Speaker A: I don't know the words, but I just. That whole song, I heard it this morning. I'm like, life is.
[00:03:41] Speaker B: You heard this morning? That's amazing.
[00:03:43] Speaker A: Well, that's what I do. I listen to it. Hey, it's 10:02.
[00:03:46] Speaker B: Pray for the Harvest.
[00:03:46] Speaker A: Bill. Take it.
[00:03:48] Speaker B: I think my favorite song, which is not spiritual at all, is one called the Dominic the Donkey.
Yes. It's amazing. And so I'm from upstate New York, and I didn't realize that most of the country didn't ever hear that song.
[00:04:01] Speaker A: Never heard of it.
[00:04:02] Speaker B: And so when I came down and I was like, for all of you out there, you need to check out Dominic the Donkey. It's a great song, and you need to add it to your repertoire.
[00:04:11] Speaker A: And I'll tell you. Okay, so you introduced me to that song. I played it for my kids. And this is like, when my kids were still, like, younger, like in elementary school. And it became quickly their favorite song because it's this playful, like, you know.
Yeah, it's. It's phenomenal.
[00:04:26] Speaker B: Oh, it's so good.
[00:04:26] Speaker A: So good.
[00:04:27] Speaker B: My. My most loathed song is Carol of the Bells. I think it's Ray Conniff. Oh, Ray Conniff is what?
[00:04:35] Speaker A: How's it go? It's.
[00:04:36] Speaker B: Dude, there's a part in the song.
[00:04:40] Speaker B: I'm gonna try this. There's a part in the song where they go.
[00:04:45] Speaker B: And then you think it's over. And they jump at an octave and.
[00:04:51] Speaker B: And you're like, what in the heck is going on? And then they go.
It's like all the. It's. And you're like, why is this? And it's eight minutes long on the radio. And, like, who gave this much permission for this song to be on?
[00:05:03] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:05:04] Speaker B: I hate that song. Loathe it entirely. Kyle, what about you?
[00:05:08] Speaker A: Well, yeah, I don't know about. My favorite's Probably Heard the Bells and just because I loved playing at our worship.
[00:05:15] Speaker B: Yeah, Casting Crowns sings that one. Yeah, that was a good one.
[00:05:19] Speaker A: And then Travis and I are about to become mortal enemies because any Christmas song that's played before the day after Thanksgiving is a bad Christmas song.
[00:05:29] Speaker B: Yeah, that's a whole nother argument debate.
[00:05:30] Speaker A: The worst thing I can do is it's, you know, November 3rd and you're in the Kroger and hearing Christmas music because that's the happiest time of the year because you're disrespecting Thanksgiving. You have an opening now on the Known legacy podcast.
[00:05:46] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:05:48] Speaker A: Applications can be sent to infononelegacy.org no. Oh, by the way, my. My least favorite. Yeah, Mariah Carey.
[00:05:59] Speaker A: I can't even sing it. I just like. As soon as it comes on, I'm like, done. Oh, the other one by Wham.
[00:06:04] Speaker B: Last Christmas.
[00:06:05] Speaker A: Yeah, last Christmas. Oh, and the one by.
Was the beetle. John McCartney.
That would be either Paul McCartney or John Lemon. One of the two.
[00:06:15] Speaker B: But did he say John McCartney?
[00:06:18] Speaker A: I hate you both.
No.
[00:06:22] Speaker A: No, no, no. You know the song I'm talking about by Paul McCartney?
It's got the, like, crazy synth in the background.
[00:06:29] Speaker B: I think our guest needs to. Need to add something.
[00:06:31] Speaker A: Travis, it sounds like you hate all Christmas songs too.
[00:06:33] Speaker B: Exactly.
Matt Hammett is on with us today. Ladies and gentlemen, get up for Matt. We are so glad to have you on.
[00:06:40] Speaker A: Where are you?
[00:06:41] Speaker B: There he is.
And he had Some comments.
[00:06:45] Speaker C: Yeah. Where am I?
I'm just stuck on the fact that he just said John McCartney.
[00:06:55] Speaker C: I'm out, guys.
[00:06:56] Speaker B: Run that good old.
So, being. So, what's your thoughts on Paul Lennon?
[00:07:01] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:07:01] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:07:02] Speaker C: You know, I've been thinking about that a lot.
[00:07:05] Speaker A: He imagined a lot.
[00:07:06] Speaker B: But I do know you're talking about simply having a wonderful Christmas time.
[00:07:08] Speaker A: Yeah. Like.
[00:07:09] Speaker B: Yeah, that was. Yeah.
[00:07:10] Speaker A: How's it go? Do you remember?
[00:07:11] Speaker B: I do know. And I'm not singing it because you get one a day. You get one.
[00:07:15] Speaker A: Kyle wants to hear it.
[00:07:16] Speaker B: Kyle wants to hear it. Matt, what about you? What is your. What was the question again? I'm so off the rails.
[00:07:21] Speaker A: Christmas song you absolutely love. And the Christmas song that you're like, man.
Even if it's after Thanksgiving, Kyle and I hear it on the radio and Kroger. I'm putting everything away and I'm leaving. Because it's that bad of a song for you.
[00:07:36] Speaker C: Yeah. You know, I will say favorite, like, traditional Christmas song. Oh, Holy Night.
[00:07:42] Speaker A: No question.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: Like, the melodies on that, man. I mean. Oh, my goodness, my.
I guess maybe one of the songs that gives me good feelings because I think I've heard it come on. In so many, like, moments that feel like Christmas to me. That's not more of, like, a Christian market, really. Song would be All I Want for Christmas is you by Mariah Care.
I just said Mariah Care.
Mariah Carey, John McCartney and Mariah Cara.
[00:08:15] Speaker B: This is amazing, guys. We're a mess. That's awesome.
[00:08:19] Speaker C: Oh, but, yeah, so, like, something about that Christmas, you know, like.
[00:08:24] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:08:25] Speaker C: That big. Like that just kind of feels so seasonal. I gotta add a. I gotta add a. A category here, though, for the weirdest Christmas song that I actually kind of love.
[00:08:34] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:35] Speaker A: But it's.
[00:08:35] Speaker C: I don't even really know why it's a Christmas song, except for it was on a Christmas album. It was Sia's Puppies Are Forever, which my kids think is hilarious.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: What is it?
[00:08:43] Speaker C: Say it again.
[00:08:44] Speaker B: No, what is it?
[00:08:44] Speaker C: Oh, dude. Sia. Sia's Christmas record. Yeah.
[00:08:47] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:08:48] Speaker C: You gotta listen to that. Yeah, it's okay.
[00:08:50] Speaker B: I'll listen.
[00:08:51] Speaker C: Puppies are Forever.
[00:08:53] Speaker A: How does that go? How does that go? Matt, could you share with us?
[00:08:57] Speaker C: Oh, yeah.
[00:08:59] Speaker B: He sounds way better than I do.
[00:09:02] Speaker C: All those other gifts, you know, whatever. We want Puppies for Christmas. Wow. Which actually. Don't want another puppy for Christmas.
[00:09:08] Speaker B: Sorry, people, there's nothing. This thing's a free puppy either. No, not at all.
[00:09:12] Speaker A: If you want to send a pet peeve to Bill.
[00:09:15] Speaker B: Too much responsibility. And as you can see from this. From this videoing, I don't have the ability to have that much responsibility. So that would not work for me. Oh, my goodness.
[00:09:25] Speaker C: I think the worst Christmas song. Sorry. Because I know these guys, but people say it all the time. It's become a, you know, a huge joke. But I think it stands that. That Christmas Shoes is so freaking depressing, you know?
[00:09:36] Speaker B: Oh, yeah.
[00:09:39] Speaker B: Yes, that one. That's the worst. What, you've never heard Christma Shoes?
[00:09:43] Speaker A: No, because I like. I like Christmas. I don't want depressing songs.
[00:09:46] Speaker B: It's about a kid who goes into a store and wants to buy shoes for his mom, who's gonna die that night. Because the line is, because I want her. I want her. No, no, no.
[00:09:58] Speaker B: It's so sad.
[00:09:59] Speaker A: He goes.
[00:10:00] Speaker B: So the tag is like, I want her to look beautiful. So when. When Mama meets Jesus tonight. So he wants to buy her a nice pair of shoes. So you're like. At first you're crying, and then you're like, I can't do this anymore. I can't emotionally handle this little kid walking in. Oh, yeah.
[00:10:14] Speaker A: I changed my vote. I didn't even heard the song. And that's the worst Christmas song ever. I change it, and it's not.
[00:10:19] Speaker C: Here's the thing. Like, it's not even like, you know, mama could die. Maybe there's hope for mama on Christmas. It's like, nope, Mom's gonna die.
[00:10:25] Speaker B: Mom's gonna die.
[00:10:29] Speaker C: Shoes for her casket.
[00:10:31] Speaker B: Exactly. I'm like, oh.
[00:10:33] Speaker C: And then go from there, man.
[00:10:35] Speaker B: You know, it's only down from there. And it's like this. Oh, and you. And at first you think it's nice, like, you know, she seemed. He'd say pennies for. It would seem like years, like, okay, he's gonna buy some shoes for his mom, right? And then. Then the next day, like, nope, she's gone. It was like Christmas morning. Wakes up with. Without Mama. Oh, that's right. You've just. Okay, I'm depressed now. I don't know what to do. It does.
[00:10:57] Speaker C: Depressing Christmas song ever. I don't. I'm sorry.
[00:10:59] Speaker B: I'm with you, Mariah Carey. Mariah Care. You're out of it.
[00:11:02] Speaker C: Mariah care and John McCartney are out.
[00:11:05] Speaker B: John McCartney are out now.
[00:11:08] Speaker A: Oh, man.
[00:11:08] Speaker B: Dude, we are so glad to have you on again today. And. Oh, always love having you on. And thank you for. For entertaining us. And even if it's just the four of us, we're gonna have a lot of fun today. I Guess.
[00:11:17] Speaker A: Yes. But no.
[00:11:18] Speaker B: Man, we are super pumped to have you on, and, man, wanted to get you on again.
I love that you're. You're. You're a constant guest, because I really speak. I really believe you have a heart to speak wisdom into men and families. And even. Even now, it's like, you know, as you look at. And I. I'll touch on this. You look at some of, like, the Christian music industry, and there's been kind of an onslaught of things that are like, man, this isn't good. But then I know a lot of guys in the industry who are really.
[00:11:42] Speaker A: Good, really solid guys.
[00:11:44] Speaker B: Like, I mean, other than that, there's a lot of really good guys out there. But.
But I. And I think. I don't want them to get drowned in the reality of what's. Of what's happening, because you got solid guys preaching solid truth. I just saw Babylon Bee post something like. Like, something about, like, you know, something about, like, biblically accurate songs or something like that. And I was like, the guys that I respect and love, like, just like you, Matt, you sing songs that reach the heart of people, and so I'd love you to speak in a little bit of that. From that conflict. So maybe. Maybe if you could, for those who are listening, like, I don't know you're talking about. Can you kind of share a little bit about the backstory of some of this and you don't have to use names or whatever you want, but whatever you'd like to share about that and then kind of your thoughts on everything.
[00:12:27] Speaker C: I'm specifically talking about some of the stuff that came out around Christian music.
[00:12:31] Speaker B: Yes, the.
[00:12:32] Speaker C: The scandal stuff. Yeah, yeah, totally.
[00:12:34] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:12:34] Speaker C: And, you know, I don't. I don't have a problem saying. If you're talking about the stuff. Yeah, no problem at all. You know, I've known Michael for years and, you know, just really was so heartbroken to find out that, you know, I mean, they're saying it's hundreds of people, maybe more than that, who over the years have been sexually assaulted in some way.
And so. Or, you know, I don't know if you'd all just say that until you get censored for that word.
[00:13:01] Speaker B: No, no, no.
[00:13:02] Speaker C: How that works. Okay.
[00:13:02] Speaker B: No, you're good. You're good.
[00:13:04] Speaker C: Yeah. But it just was heartbreaking. It was heartbreaking because of so many reasons. I think one of the things for me.
Well, the obvious for me was feeling so heartbroken for the people who are the victims, obviously. Like, I felt like that's the given. That's the first thing that hurts us all, especially coming out of someone who is seen as a Christian leader or a Christian figure on stage, who people look up to.
[00:13:36] Speaker C: But secondly, I think what broke my heart is seeing what culture does that I wish the church wouldn't do.
But it seems that we fall in line with culture when it comes to the broader brushstrokes and the big boxes and the bubbles that we paint everybody in. So it's like, you know, it's like everybody or all is bad, or it's like, yeah, you know, we don't. We don't take time to address the nuance of an issue. It's just got to be the big story that kind of encompasses an entire industry. And so you have people saying, like, the whole industry is corrupt. I think that the most annoying one to me was Corey Asbury, who I like. I like Corey. I like his music. I think he's funny. I think it's actually pretty cool to see what's happened with him recently.
But guys like that saying, like, oh, man. Everybody knew in the whole industry, and what's true is that we all did know that Michael, over the years, had been in rehab for drug use. You know, we all did have questions about, you know, Michael's sexual orientation. And, you know, it's like, there were things that you questioned. But I also knew people who lovingly did what the Bible said, which is go to the person directly and address it.
[00:14:54] Speaker A: Right.
[00:14:54] Speaker C: And in those moments, I know a lot of people that did that. And in those moments, if someone says, hey, you know what? That is not true. That is not happening. This is all hurtful, harmful rumors. Well, where do you go from there without the receipts? Nobody had the receipts.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:15:11] Speaker C: We were doing our best to love people the best that we could, all of us. And I wasn't, like, really directly involved with it, but I'm saying. But I know people who were.
And.
And you've got these people basically just saying, like, you know, the whole Christian music industry is a sham. This is. I heard people say, lots of people saying, like, this runs in the veins of the Christian music industry.
[00:15:31] Speaker A: Wow.
[00:15:31] Speaker C: And so I really felt, like, just a need to come out on my social. Just out of my heart for people who were confused because nobody was talking about it for, like, weeks, and, like, nobody's addressing it. And I just felt like I just needed to come out and just say, hey, look. Yeah, this is. This is horrible. This is horrible for the victims.
It's. It's incredibly sad for Michael. Who struggled with all this his whole life, all these secret sins. And I hope everybody involved finds healing over time that kind of only we know, only Lord can bring.
[00:16:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:16:08] Speaker C: But I think.
I think I wanted to encourage Christian music fans, like my experience in 25 years of Christian music being in very close proximity to not all, but probably most of the people that people would recognize in Christian music and do a lot of life with. A lot of people people would recognize in Christian music. I can personally say, yeah, there's a few people I know who've had struggles over the years, but I know for a fact that those people have operated in a way that they have strived to.
[00:16:43] Speaker C: Live in a way that honors Jesus and to get their lives in the direction that honors Jesus and use their platform and steward it well and serve the Lord. And that's what they care about the most, is the Lord. They care about their families. They're people who really started doing this for the right reasons, and I think continue to do this for the right reasons, even though every single person has seasons of life where they struggle, you know, with whatever it may be.
[00:17:07] Speaker A: Right, right.
[00:17:08] Speaker C: So I think overall, I've seen.
[00:17:13] Speaker C: It. I've seen people operate in that way, and I bet. And like I said, I'm sure there are people who I have not been closely involved with, who have things going on that other people would speak to. But again, for me, it's been the exception and not the rule. Well, I just wanted. Yeah, go ahead.
[00:17:32] Speaker A: I was gonna say what I think you're talking about is this propensity that we have as human as guilt by association. Right?
[00:17:38] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:17:39] Speaker A: If one person in authority has a fall, well, then everyone around him must have known and they were covering up for him. And there's a really high likelihood that a lot of people didn't know, and they just like the guy and they were caring for the guy and they're praying for the guy, and. And he made his decisions to do what he did. When you put that post out, what has been the reaction to that post? Because I'm wagering to bet there's been some like, man, thank you, brother, for doing that. And then there's been others just.
[00:18:03] Speaker A: It's gotten their dander up, if you would.
[00:18:06] Speaker C: Oh, yeah, yeah. I've got.
I think that I work really hard to try to diffuse conflict with understanding and love and real conversation instead of attacks. And so the future Jesus way. Yes, yes. The few people.
[00:18:28] Speaker C: Who are.
[00:18:31] Speaker C: I guess, who came at me a little bit like some in very subtle ways. So And I didn't say, come at me. That's. That's not even the right language. But people who kind of were maybe more on the defense.
You know, I did my best to answer and try to diffuse. And there were some people who ended up in my direct messages who couldn't let it go. And I just kind of had at some point be as gracious as I could and then let it go.
[00:18:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:18:54] Speaker C: You know, and so. But I did want to do my best because I brought it up to actually answer people's questions as much as possible. But there were. There were the overwhelming amount of people said, hey, thank you for telling us this. We've been wondering. We've been discouraged. It's so good to hear from somebody on the inside to say, hey, you know, all the people I've been in proximity with, 95% of them have sought to really serve the Lord and honor their platform.
[00:19:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:19:19] Speaker C: And. And have lived in a way that reflects that.
And then there are others who just, you know, they're. I think they're angry. Some of them are people who had personal experiences inside the industry that I, again, I believe are the exception and are really sad, and I actually really feel for them. And. And then I had the few people who are like, you don't care about victims. You just want to defend the Christian music industry.
[00:19:42] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:19:42] Speaker C: I'm like, well, I think it's. Shouldn't it just be. I think it's a given. We all care about the victims. I think I was just operating from a standpoint of, like, our.
I figured we all cared about that, you know?
[00:19:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:19:55] Speaker C: And so, you know, there's people who I think maybe probably have been through some things that make them particularly tender to this issue. And I do actually have a lot of empathy for that and a lot of compassion for that and understand they're operating out of. Out of a painful place in their own life. And. And I hope that they find the forgiveness and healing that they need.
[00:20:16] Speaker A: Yeah. And I think kind of what the music industry is dealing with is what a lot of churches deal with when their leader goes through some kind of moral failing, whether it be financial moral failing or sexual moral failing or whatever. And it's easy to throw the baby out with bathwater. And I think as much as you address kind of like the industry itself and the fact that there's so many good guys, I do think there's a mirror moment for us as a culture that to sit down and say, what is it within our hearts that continue to elevate humans into a position that they were never intended to be, the idol position.
It's the same thing that Paul dealt with in the early church, where people were like, well, Paul baptized me, or Apollos baptized me, and they were finding all this pride in the human. And it's like these gut check moments were like, wait a second. I'm going to follow that person as they follow Christ. But my ultimate goal is to follow Christ.
And if they help direct me to Christ, then I'm going to celebrate that. And if they have a failing, I'm going to pray for that, and I'm going to pray for repentance, and I'm going to pray for restoration in that situation. But ultimately, my faith in Jesus Christ is secured by Jesus, not by the people who point me to him or the people who have led me to him, if that makes sense. I think it's a really important thing. Perfect sense that we kind of wrestle.
[00:21:27] Speaker B: With, you know, to kind of tag off of that. To tag off of that. I feel like, you know, I have a lot of respect for. For. For Matt and his heart and character, as well as guys like Chad from Unspoken and Mike from Big Daddy Weave and. And I feel like when I'm around these guys, it really does feel like, yeah, you. You play music, but. But it's just another beggar showing another beggar where to get bread, you know, in the sake of the gospel. Like, it's not mine. I'm not perfect. I know. Even after. And if you got. If you're out there and you haven't read Matt's book, Lead Me, you need to read that, too, because he doesn't. He.
You don't. You don't. You don't glamorize the industry, even in your own journey of how hard it was and vans and away from family and things like that. But I think. I think we forget that because we see. We hear you on the radio or we hear these things and we're like, they must be perfect, or there's a pressure to be perfect. And I love that you guys are authentic. That's why I call out those few guys.
And so I appreciate that. But it's like this heart of, let's get back to the gospel. And I think that's what I kind of want to focus on even now is like, the music of, like, man, what are some great things you're seeing happen in the industry?
[00:22:32] Speaker C: Yeah, well, I mean, I think the one thing that I've always seen and that I continue to see that really blows Me Away is the impact of Christian music on listeners. You know, I was in a room. I got a chance to write a song called Testimony with artist named Tarian that's out at radio right now.
[00:22:48] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:22:48] Speaker C: And it was one of those songs that it impacted us while we were writing it.
And it was. I remember just walking out almost in tears, thinking, man, this not only is one of those songs that I just feel blessed that the Lord allowed us to kind of grab onto today, but that we get to send it into the world in hopes that it would do for somebody else what it did for us that day.
And I got to be in a room with her singing it. And I felt the same thing happen in the room that happened in the writing room.
And people started standing, their feet, raising their hands. People were crying.
And I think that, to me, the mystery of how God works through music and the way his spirit just. I don't understand it, really. I don't understand why God works through music in that way, but he does, right? And it's such a powerful tool.
And I think I'm still so encouraged to see just the way that it continues to impact the audience and the person who listens. I mean, so, you know, people can say what they will as a whole about it, but I mean, it's. It continues to impact over 30 million people just at radio.
[00:24:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:24:01] Speaker C: Every single week. You know that these songs are out there, and it's changing people's lives. Who turn that dial around streaming, who are listening to a playlist as a Christian song on it, it grabs them, and it. Somehow God uses it to impact their lives.
[00:24:14] Speaker A: So let me ask this really practical question, because I think you. You will be able to speak into it, because it's a. It's a world you live in where people are more than happy and willing to put you onto that pedestal, into that role of idol, if you would. How do you and the guys and gals that you are in proximity to, how do they maintain that humility to. To. To. Not to. To be honest with themselves, saying, this is the work of the Spirit, this is not me. And he just chose me at this point to bring this forth. But he could have chosen any number of people to make that song or to make this moment. How do you maintain that humility? Because I think that's one of the secret sauce elements of the genuine guys and gals out there that are really genuinely pursuing Christ through music, and it happens to be recorded and happens to be shared with other people.
How do you maintain that humility in that difficult season.
[00:25:06] Speaker C: Yeah, I think humility has a lot to do with. I mean, obviously, you know, it's our heart posture before the Lord. But also I think that a practical piece of that is proximity to people.
I think it's proximity to community.
So I think one of the things about most of the artists in Christian music maintain a close proximity to people, and they engage in their stories.
They spend more time listening to the stories, hearing from people, loving people, hugging people, being around people.
[00:25:38] Speaker A: And.
[00:25:38] Speaker C: And really, because they see it as.
Even if it's like the. The music business for some people, even those people, if they're in Christian music, actually want to see ministry come out of it.
[00:25:49] Speaker A: Right.
[00:25:50] Speaker C: So it's like, you know, I think. I think that's it. And. And I think that the ones that I've seen who actually do have pretty big egos, the ones where I'm like, personally, like, ah, you know what? God's doing something for that person. But I wish they were a little more humble. Usually they're the ones that are more isolated, and they're the ones who have the security detail around them or other people, like, keeping them from being the ones to interact with anybody. And so. But I do think, you know, most Christian artists have a closer proximity to people. And. And that's why I love what I do now. Like, even, you know, I'm still an artist, but it's like I'm in a season of my life where I'm doing a lot of speaking for nonprofits and I get to serve shoulder to shoulder with. Yes, I get to be personally invested, personally involved. And when you're close to those people who are doing real work, you're close to the stories.
It keeps you humble to know that, you know, we're just kind of all.
[00:26:47] Speaker A: In this together to build the kingdom and the way. So I live in the world of pastors, and a lot of times pastors have the illusion of community, but more often than not, it's people who know them as pastor.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:26:59] Speaker A: So it's Pastor Travis or Pastor whatever. And I think with the community that you're talking about, to put a little finer point on is you need a community. People that know you by Matt and could care less, could care less the Dove Awards, could care less about. And at the end of the day, and I was blessed when we moved to Allen, that I got a group of guys from the cigar shop that they could care less if I plant five churches or if I plant zero churches or I'm working at Starbucks, they Could they know me as Travis. And there's a grounding that happens there. There's a. There's a. When you have a group of guys that will call you out and joke around with you and not take your, you know, word, like, they just. They bust your tail. Chops. Chops. That's a good word. Do you have that? And how have you been able to maintain that?
That group of folks that just know you as Matt?
[00:27:45] Speaker C: Yeah. I've got a lot of people in my life right now that are. That serve in that capacity as a friend. For me, I think.
[00:27:56] Speaker C: There was a season of time when I was so busy with the band and touring and even afterwards just figuring that out. But over the past, as I've been home more, and especially over the past four or five years, I've developed the habit of welcoming people into that place to not guard myself or shield myself, but to. But to do the work of welcome. I mean, even with Bill, it's like. It's like, Bill's such an amazing guy, and he's someone who will reach out. And you decide every time you meet a Bill who's an encourager or someone who, you know, you're like, this dude's the real deal. He will not only encourage, but he will speak truth. You decide, do I open the door to that person or not? And I've learned to open the door to those people. So Bill knows he can text me. You know, it's like, I have no doubt that, you know, he can text me encouragement, but I. I feel like he's someone who could also say, hey, bro, I saw this. What's up with that? You know?
[00:28:54] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:28:55] Speaker C: I think I've tried to, like.
[00:28:58] Speaker C: Open myself to be someone who can just receive that from people and welcome that from people.
And I just. I think that's. That's the key, man. Like, and then also being that person, I've learned to be that person, you know, in community, to be the one to be someone who does my best to reach out and be a Bill.
[00:29:19] Speaker A: I love it.
[00:29:20] Speaker C: Y' all should be a Bill.
[00:29:22] Speaker A: Wow. The next book, be a Bill.
[00:29:24] Speaker B: I got to fix myself first before I. Before I'm my own Bill.
[00:29:27] Speaker A: But I do think what you're saying is so important, because I think this isn't unique just to pastors or musicians. This is unique to anyone who's successful in whatever business they're set out to. So there's probably a lot of guys that are listening to that.
They have the illusion of community and their co workers. But at the end of the day, the co workers are there because they're the boss. And you need a group of guys. And this would be our rally call. We've had this from day one. Our rally call is you have to establish a group of guys that know you for your first name and care less about anything else.
[00:29:55] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:55] Speaker A: And if it was all taken away, they would still come alongside you and say, let's hang out.
[00:29:59] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:29:59] Speaker A: You know, because they're not gravy training. They're not riding the coattails. They could care less. And they just know you. And I think I love your idea of, like, being open to it, and when you see it or taste it, lean into it. And I think a lot of us don't make the time for that or just run from it because we're terrified that somehow it's going to disrupt the kingdom that we've. The illusion of the kingdom that we've created.
[00:30:23] Speaker B: Because they'll really find me out kind of thing.
[00:30:24] Speaker A: Right. And somehow they're not going to. And so I love that. And so, gentlemen, if you're listening to this, ladies, if you're listening to this and you find yourself alone and surrounded by people who know you by your title rather than your name, God is sending people to you on a regular to pull you out of that. And I would say find those people, listen to the spirit and lean into that and be open to developing those relationship and investing in those relationships.
[00:30:47] Speaker B: No, absolutely.
[00:30:48] Speaker C: It's hard work.
[00:30:49] Speaker A: It is. It is.
[00:30:50] Speaker B: So I think so. And you know, I'd love to one more time. We'll kind of circle back around to that person who, man, they had been listening to Christian music and they feel kind of betrayed right now. Would you. Would you speak into them a little bit? Just like, hey, here's what I would. If you could sit down with someone who's like, you know what? I read this stuff about, about Michael and I'm done.
I mean, what would you say to them right now? If you could just sit down with a great question.
[00:31:14] Speaker C: Yeah, man. I think that my parents were an incredible example to me. I think we might have touched on this when we talked about church Hurt back on another episode.
[00:31:24] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
[00:31:26] Speaker C: But my parents set an incredible example for me. I'll never forget leaving the church that we had been at since I was born, and I was probably in fifth grade at the time. And my parents turned around and they said, hey, just so you know, we're not going back to church. This is like on the way home from church, And I had no idea. And I'm like, that was my entire community. That was everything to me in terms of, like, you know, my church family. And we were there all the time.
And I mean, what do you mean? You know, we're not going back? And they're like, well, some things happened, you know, with the pastor, and there was a little bit of a falling out, and my dad had basically tried to confront it and been asked to leave the church.
[00:32:09] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:32:10] Speaker C: And, you know, there was a group of men who just kind of saw something that wasn't right, had lovingly gone to the pastor, and he wasn't ready to get things right. So he pushed the people who were confronting it out of the. Out of his life.
[00:32:24] Speaker A: Yep.
[00:32:25] Speaker C: And the thing about it for me was my parents looked at me and said, but we want you to know how much we love Pastor. We love him, and he has made a huge impact on our lives. And he's just a man.
And. And we're, you know, we're going to find a place where we can keep serving the Lord. And. And I just. From the young age, they modeled to me that, like, look, our faith is in people, and we love people. I think.
I think that the stories we tell ourselves, I guess, what if we were as charitable with other people as we are with ourselves?
[00:33:07] Speaker C: And the stories we tell, because we tell a lot of good stories about ourselves to cover some of us struggle with negative thoughts about ourselves in general, people as a defense mechanism. Even when we might be wrong or have a wrong attitude or have done something that might hurt somebody, we can tell ourselves these stories, like, well, I was just this, or I was just that, or, I didn't mean to do this. And it's like, you see. Still see the good in yourself and what you meant to do and who you really are. And this was a mistake.
[00:33:39] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:33:39] Speaker C: And what if we could tell ourselves that same charitable stories about. About others? Like, yeah, you know what? They're going to face the consequences of their mistakes as they go. They're learning.
But what if we could. We could tell ourselves better stories about people and be more charitable.
[00:33:57] Speaker B: I love that.
[00:33:59] Speaker C: Yeah. Be willing to engage in that way as opposed to, like, telling more bad stories about other people. Now, again, when you have a fact of something that was done, there are consequences that have to be faced.
[00:34:13] Speaker A: To put a. Maybe a cherry on top. Correct me if I'm wrong. Here we live in a culture that is really excited to cancel, and I think what God calls us to do is to hit our knees and so you hear the story of. Of Mike and kind of what was hidden for so long finally came to light, and there's a deep desire to cancel. Right? Absolutely. And then remove total. And I think what God says is like, dude, I've revealed this in such a way that my body would be praying for him and his salvation and for the hearts of those who have been abused by him so that they would not be embittered by the good news of Jesus Christ. But, Lord, they would find hope and healing in the cross because he was there in that moment. He's been there in that healing and in that season of sorrow and struggle. Post that event.
[00:35:00] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:00] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:35:01] Speaker A: And so I think the high calling for us, and this is hard because this is a mature Christian, I think, view is to sit down and say, when we hear of that, man, we should be men that will wear out our knees in prayer for those people that they would come to know. Repentance would be known and, Lord, restoration and healing. Because this is an eternity thing. This isn't just the impact of today. This is eternity.
[00:35:23] Speaker B: Yeah. And again, we know there's a lot of victims, and I do not flippantly say that at all.
[00:35:27] Speaker A: No.
[00:35:27] Speaker B: Like, yeah.
[00:35:28] Speaker C: So hard to even talk about it from. Right. Because you're like, you definitely. We even us, we operate off a charitable idea that people won't accuse us of not caring about victims.
[00:35:40] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:35:40] Speaker C: When we talk about other aspects of it, you know.
[00:35:43] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:35:44] Speaker B: And it's really hard.
[00:35:45] Speaker C: I mean, it's hard to talk about.
[00:35:47] Speaker B: It is. You know, and. But you hit it. And it made me think about. And Jesus made it really simple with the Ten Commandments. He's like, love the Lord, your God, with your heart, soul, mind, and strength, and love your neighbor as yourself, the way you would love yourself. And I love that, that call to action. Because what I'm hearing is, man, if you're sitting out there and you're going, the heck with Christian music, I don't want to do anything with it, man. Stop for a minute. Make sure that you're in community.
[00:36:08] Speaker A: Right.
[00:36:09] Speaker B: Make sure that you're surrounded by people that you want to be like, not just in community, but people that you're like, I respect this person. I want to hear from them because.
[00:36:14] Speaker A: I know them, and there's proximity there.
[00:36:16] Speaker B: Exactly. And I can be authentic in front of them. But then also, where can I challenge myself to love more? Because I'm guessing there was somebody. There was somebody at the foot of the cross of that criminal who was like, forgive me, you Know, forgive me. And he's like, you're gonna be with me in paradise. And they're like, the heck with that. Yeah, you robbed for me? Or heck with that. You murdered my. We don't know what he did.
[00:36:36] Speaker A: Right, Right.
[00:36:37] Speaker B: And there's somebody that's still going. No, that person deserves to roast in hell.
[00:36:41] Speaker A: And that's the radicalness of when Jesus says, pray for your enemy. Yeah, that's the radicalness, because we want justice from our enemy. And God goes, pray for him. Because this has eternal implications. Yeah.
[00:36:52] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:36:52] Speaker A: It's hard. It's hard, gentlemen. It is absolutely hard.
[00:36:57] Speaker C: I have compassion, a lot of compassion for people who aren't there yet, you know, I hope they can arrive there for the sake of their own peace and their own soul.
[00:37:07] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. No, I. I love it, man. This was a great conversation. Matt, want to have you on again, because I'd love to talk sometime about having to send off that baby girl to college and what that all went through and working through families. So maybe even this next year, we'll talk that.
You know, we're still praying for you about that. And. And as you have more to send off and all that. We all have. Have felt that. And so it'd be great to have another conversation about that. But, man, thank you for this. I would. I would love. And any final thoughts about that before we move into Fast five?
[00:37:34] Speaker C: Yeah. We serve God and not people.
And. And I think each one of us.
[00:37:40] Speaker B: Good.
[00:37:40] Speaker C: When we see a problem with the world, we have to think more about what are we doing to fix it. We. And. And also, there's one other simple thing I've been thinking a lot about. I'm just gonna say it.
This will lead to another conversation down the road.
[00:37:54] Speaker A: Oh, yeah.
[00:37:56] Speaker C: But I feel like right now there, we've been operating for a long time in this kind of, like, content is king space.
But I hope that we can get back to context as king with conversations pretty soon, you know, because I'm like, man, people take S bites and use it as the paint to brush over entire swaths of people. And I hope that we can get back a little more to context and nuance in the way that we think about issues and people a little bit. So, you know, maybe we can move that. Maybe the Lord will give us the grace to move that direction, to be able to have better conversations, you know? And this has been a great one.
[00:38:34] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:38:34] Speaker A: Deep thoughts with Matt.
[00:38:36] Speaker B: I love it.
[00:38:36] Speaker A: Fantastic.
[00:38:37] Speaker B: People are more than a sound bite, you know, and so I think that's Good. Well, dude, as we finish up, we would love to do our fast five.
Yeah, yeah, we do. You know that. So I've got some new ones for you. I hope you saw those. If you could tell people.
If you could tell people to go support a cause or a ministry, what would it be and why?
[00:38:59] Speaker C: Yeah, I've been closely involved with Save the Storks, as you know.
[00:39:03] Speaker B: Yes.
[00:39:04] Speaker C: Over the past eight years.
I know it's kind of a funny name, but Save the Storks is actually a pro life organization that elevates the services that pregnancy resource centers do all across the country. And they do it for free.
So they give free grants and free partnership resources to pregnancy centers, whether it's, you know, branding, logo, actual elevating their services, elevating their center. They do remodels. They'll help them with getting women through the door, how they serve those women once they're through the door, and giving them more resources so that they can feel more equipped to help every single woman and mother and father that walks through.
And so. And they do mobile clinics as well. Four out of five people who walk through the doors of the mobile clinics that they have nationwide through these centers.
Four to five. Choose life.
[00:39:56] Speaker A: That's awesome.
That's so cool.
[00:39:58] Speaker B: We will put a link in the bottom for that. Yeah.
[00:40:00] Speaker A: And if. If you guys end of year, given. Want to make a difference, it'd be a great organization to fund.
[00:40:05] Speaker B: Yeah, no, it is. It is great. Powerful, powerful organization. So, yeah. Something we would love to raise awareness for. So we'll put that. Put that link in there.
[00:40:12] Speaker C: Yeah. And you guys know I did the Dare to be a dad. I think we talked about it before, so fatherhood program as well. So they're all over it.
[00:40:19] Speaker B: It's pretty awesome.
I'm a little. I'm a little biased and Dare to be a dad video series.
[00:40:23] Speaker A: That's my idol.
[00:40:24] Speaker C: Yeah, man.
[00:40:26] Speaker A: I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
[00:40:27] Speaker B: That's awesome. Awesome. Okay, number two, if you could describe legacy in a word or a phrase, what would it be?
[00:40:35] Speaker C: Oh, man, I was thinking I saw this one and I'm like, man, the fast five.
[00:40:39] Speaker B: I'm like, it's not a fast five.
[00:40:41] Speaker C: I'm not fast.
God and family, man.
[00:40:44] Speaker B: Okay. God and family. I love it. I love it.
Number three, what family tradition do you have for the holiday season? Like, what's one thing you guys do during the holidays?
[00:40:55] Speaker C: Yeah, we sing carols around the tree on Christmas Eve.
[00:40:58] Speaker B: Oh, that's cool.
That's so good.
Your family's pretty talented. I've. I remember I was.
His daughter was leading worship at a church. I was at one time, and I'm like, bro, she outdid you. She's amazing. You did good, sir. You did good.
I love it. I love it. Okay, number four, what is your go to?
I can't read. Oh, yeah. What's your go to? Fruit. If you had to pick one.
[00:41:23] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:41:28] Speaker C: I keep it simple, man. When it comes to fruit, I love an apple with peanut butter on it, man. That is. That is classic.
[00:41:33] Speaker A: Okay. What kind of apple, though? Because there's a wide swath of apples from Granny Smith.
[00:41:39] Speaker C: Well, the Honey Crisp, actually.
[00:41:41] Speaker A: Oh, yes.
[00:41:42] Speaker B: Hallelujah.
[00:41:43] Speaker A: It is the king of all apples. Absolutely. Yeah.
[00:41:46] Speaker B: That's a northern boy right there talking.
[00:41:48] Speaker A: That's why we. That's why we have it on the podcast.
[00:41:50] Speaker B: Exactly.
[00:41:50] Speaker A: Right there. We knew you would go with that.
[00:41:53] Speaker B: So what do you want to be remembered for those closest to you?
[00:41:58] Speaker C: Yeah, man.
It goes back to kind of the legacy question. I do want people to remember that I loved the Lord above all and that I love my friends really well and that I love my family. So if I can remember for those things, just that would be enough for me.
[00:42:15] Speaker B: Dude, I love it.
[00:42:16] Speaker A: Beautiful. Simple and beautiful.
[00:42:17] Speaker B: I love. You know, and for those out there, Matt put out a new song. Days God gave speaks into that really, really well. So make sure you check that out. We will put a link for the. Maybe the Spotify in there. So I don't know. We'll put it on. It's on Matt. Matt Hammett.com as well, right?
[00:42:34] Speaker C: I think so. I manage myself, so might not have hit the website.
[00:42:40] Speaker A: Well, we'll.
[00:42:40] Speaker B: We'll put it.
[00:42:41] Speaker C: You just made me go, oh, boy. Did I.
[00:42:43] Speaker B: Did I do this or not? That's okay. I get it. I get it.
[00:42:46] Speaker A: This afternoon. It will be up on his website.
[00:42:48] Speaker C: By the time this is out on Instagram. Yeah, people follow me on Instagram, they can find pretty much anything.
[00:42:54] Speaker B: That's it.
[00:42:54] Speaker A: That's excellent.
[00:42:55] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, go and do a follow on this. Like I said, an authentic man who loves the Lord.
[00:42:59] Speaker A: Yes.
[00:43:00] Speaker B: Give him a follow on Instagram. Matt, we're so blessed to have you on today, man. I know you've got a bunch to do, so we will let you go. But, man, thank you for your time.
[00:43:08] Speaker A: God bless you, brother. And may the Lord continue to impact others through you and your mission and your ministry.
[00:43:14] Speaker B: Yeah, guys, thank you so much for. Thank you, man. Guys, thank you so much for. For tuning in today, being a part of this. Make sure you share this if you like it. If you don't like it, make sure you share it. And don't tell us that you don't like it. And man, we are so glad that you were a part of what we did today, Travis.
[00:43:28] Speaker A: And I'd say if there's any Christmas songs that you feel like Bill and I need to listen to before the end of the season, post them after Thanksgiving, Kyle, because we don't want to rile the bear over there. Yes, yes, but throw them in the comments and we'll make sure we take a listen.
[00:43:40] Speaker B: We would love to hear what ones you want, so let us know and have yourselves.
Merry Christmas. There it is.
[00:43:48] Speaker A: Thanks for listening to the no Legacy podcast.
[00:43:51] Speaker B: We'd love to hear from you.
[00:43:53] Speaker A: So email us your questions or comments.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: To info at nolegacy. Org.
